Suicide. the subject no one talks about

Everyday living
1

Not a nice subject i no but it is a subject that i have faced[ like some people with MS]
I was just going to ask for PM only, but talked it over with Mods and they felt it would be okay to post on everyday living.
As long as nobody starts giving tips on how to do it
So i will start with my on story and see how i get on.
I have had MS now for 30 years and for the first 20 just fairly normal,one or two small problems.Then the next 10 slowly getting worse,2 years ago i had a big relapse and i ended up having to us a wheelchair 3 bouts of Pneumonia and a blot clots on my legs in hospital for 2 months.[and i hate hospitals] then my mum was diagnosed with sever Dementia.We are still waiting to be rehoused as this house is no good for a wheelchair and need a wet room.I have always said when i cant wipe my own bum [you loose all your dignaty] then it is time for me to leave.[suicide i felt was my way out]So about a year ago i tried to do it,my wife found me and i ended up in ICU for 5 days,when i come out of it i was raging at my wife for saving me.[I have forgiven her now]
After that they wanted me to see a Psychologist to see if it could help in anyway so i said yes after a couple of sessions she asked me to go back to listening to my music and try to put things back in boxes[this what i used to do if i could not do anything about the things that were troubling me, [ i had to wait until someone got back to me before i could move forward].So i asked her to do one thing for me and that was to see what it was like living in my world with all the the problem that i have to go threw and it was a long list from double constipation at the start of the day to double incontinents by the end of the day then i explained the spoon theary to her and said most days i donā€™t have many spoons to spare.[google the spoon theary and ms if you donā€™t know this one] All the problems of being in a wheelchair there is so many restrictions to take in to account. the next time i saw her she said she could not condon what i did but she could understand why i tried not alot of help to me, but at least it gets me out of house.But i do think it is working now that we are talking about the wellbeing approach, CBT, as well as new pills.There is just one problem left for me[it is like the grand national with one fence remaining how do i get over it and win the race].I know now that i will not try this again as it causes to many problems and heartache for the people you leave behind,so if i ever get that far down again, we will think about going to Dignitast. [Is this my last fence] A lot of people say it is a cowards way out i hope that they never have to be the position that i was in.[That new pill that can cure MS is only 7 years away if you believe that]I hope i have not offended anybody with this post, if i have i apoligise.For people that have just got there MS diagnosis this subject is not something that all people with MS have to deal with.[very small portion].

There is help out there, but you have to fight for it.MS essentials no10 Moods Depression and Emotions , plus MS essentials 28 Living with the effects of MS both these are helpfull,but dont take it to the next step.

If you are ever in the black hole and see no way forward please ask for help.The MS helpline,Samaratins,MS nurse[if you have one],your Docter,or partner,and this site.

They say it is good to talk,and i have talked enough.

Take Care All.

Chris.

2 Likes
2

Things for so many people would be so different if the standard of palliative care was of an equally high quality across the country.

I can draw on 2 examples of care given to family members (dementia and cancer, not MS). One was given the sort of care youā€™d expect in a 5 star spa hotel, the other the sort you see in documantaires about over-worked and under-funded NHS wards.

It is the fear of what will happen that worries us into a distressed state. If we knew that we could rely on CARING care then the anxieties we all have about our futures would be so very different.

1 Like
3

Thank you for being so honest. It is a difficult subject to talk about - I know that none of my friends will talk about it with me. But I am on my own, my husband drank himself to death last year, I donā€™t have children, I have tried to meet somebody else, but it seems that no bloke is interested in me as more than a friend, I have this stupid unpredictable disease which seems to be chipping away at who I am and what I can do - I feel that I am just treading water and little by little, sinking. I have thought long and hard about Dignitas, and Iā€™m not ready for that, but itā€™s good to know that itā€™s there if I am ever ready. At the moment, I try to keep upbeat, and to look after myself and my pets as best as I can, but when they are gone, I donā€™t know what Iā€™m going to do then, bridges to be crossed when I get to them. Iā€™ve seen how bad MS can get - my mother was the worst Iā€™ve ever seen, but Iā€™m determined that I will not be ending up like her.

Luisa

4

Thatā€™s a very thought-provoking post, Chris.

Iā€™m not sure how much people like me, who are not themselves facing the reality of the place you find yourself, have to offer to the debate. I still have a good quality of life and feel a long way from there. For what itā€™s worth, I donā€™t feel one bit squeamish about the idea of making an orderly request stop if and when I get to the point when things are too bad and Iā€™ve had enough. But itā€™s all just arm-waving speculation until you get there, isnā€™t it? Ask me again when Iā€™m in the boat youā€™re in, then I can give you a proper answer. All I can say is that I completely respect and support the right of anyone who is of sound mind and under no duress to make his or her own decisions when it comes to end-of-life.

Alison

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5

Chris thanks for being so honest when I was at my worst about a year after being diagnosed I got really down for me it was just one relapse after another everytime I could see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel I was hit with another relapse.

During my worst I was complety bed bound double incontinent and couldnā€™t move or feel a thing from the waist down and only had the use of my left arm I cried myself to sleep every night and prayed I wouldnā€™t wake in the morning my girl friend off 7 years left me and everything.

I moved back home and one morning my mother caught me crying my eyes up I told her I wanted to eat it all but I couldnā€™t even get out of bed and to be honest I was scared I wouldnā€™t be able to do it right.

I felt what kind of life was that for anyone to have.

My mother got me help just someone to talk to It wasnā€™t easy but I got over it I started new treatment and got some kind of a live back again.

Iā€™m ok now but if ever the time came that the treatment stopped working and things got that bad again and there was nothing more they could do Iā€™m out of here.

I know people would say thats a cowards way out but if they had an animal would they stand back and let it suffer like that I know I wouldnā€™t.

Iā€™m happy now I believe that Iā€™m in a much better place and even think I had a lucky escape I seen my girlfriends true colours :slight_smile:

Mark

6

Iā€™m sorry if this seems unsympahetic, I can see there may well come a time when I will be considering this but, you have to think of those you leave behind. Its no good if in dealing with your own pain,(mental pain) if you just pass it on someone else David

7

[quote=MS05393T]

Iā€™m sorry if this seems unsympahetic, I can see there may well come a time when I will be considering this but, you have to think of those you leave behind. Its no good if in dealing with your own pain,(mental pain) if you just pass it on someone else David

You have no need to sorry that is your opion and i respect that.

Take Care .

Chris.

8

[quote=lals02]

Thank you for being so honest. It is a difficult subject to talk about - I know that none of my friends will talk about it with me. But I am on my own, my husband drank himself to death last year, I donā€™t have children, I have tried to meet somebody else, but it seems that no bloke is interested in me as more than a friend, I have this stupid unpredictable disease which seems to be chipping away at who I am and what I can do - I feel that I am just treading water and little by little, sinking. I have thought long and hard about Dignitas, and Iā€™m not ready for that, but itā€™s good to know that itā€™s there if I am ever ready. At the moment, I try to keep upbeat, and to look after myself and my pets as best as I can, but when they are gone, I donā€™t know what Iā€™m going to do then, bridges to be crossed when I get to them. Iā€™ve seen how bad MS can get - my mother was the worst Iā€™ve ever seen, but Iā€™m determined that I will not be ending up like her.

Luisa

Hi Luisa.

I am sorry you are on your own dealing with this.

Are you a member of your local branch,good place to meet people,and some of them will have a good understanding of MS.

If that fails you chould try the internet.[that way you could view there profile and take it from there].

As you say keep upbeat, as long as you can.

Wish you luck wat ever you do.

Take Care .

Chris.

9

Hey Chris

I would find it difficult to talk about this subject. I have always believed that suicie is the cowards way out, BUT if my quality of life got so poor then I would seriously contemplate it with much deep soul searching, knowing that my family find it very difficult to accept but they would as it would be my decision.

I have only had MS for 6 years and havenā€™t really suffered to badly at the moment. I have actually had CBT and found that it is probably one of the best things I have done, it made me realise that life is really worth living as best as you can. I was going through a rally dark time then as a realtionship had just ended and I was going through a battle to claim ESA.

Andy

10

Hi Chris,

Iā€™m not a member of my local MS Society branch - I went to see them to get information when I knew what I was going to be diagnosed with, but I didnā€™t like the attitude of the woman that I dealt with there (head cocked to one side, big sympathetic eyes, give me a break!) so Iā€™ve never wanted to go back. I do see other people with MS though once a week when I go to my local MS Therapy Centre for Hyperbaric Oxygen, theyā€™re a good bunch and I have some good friends from there. I tried internet dating, but the blokes who spoke to me and went out on a date with me only ever went on one date - they would say that they wanted to see me again, but that would be the last I heard from them, it was like they were on a box ticking exercise - dated the girl with the walking stick, tick! So Iā€™ve given up on that. Iā€™m only 36 but on the shelf already, itā€™s ridiculous!

Anyway, Iā€™ve kind of accepted that this is it, Iā€™ll be on my own for the foreseeable - I donā€™t like it, but hey, stuff happens.

Luisa

11

[quote=ā€œchriskerrā€]

12

Hi Luisa,

Donā€™t give up hope youā€™ll find someone when your least expecting It.

Believe me blokes like that arenā€™t worth it I spent 7 years of my life pre MS with a girl we had even planned on getting married but when I got MS and ended up getting out of hospital in a wheelchair I couldnā€™t see her for dust.

When you find the right one whoā€™s worth holding onto they donā€™t see any disabilty you may have its the person inside that matters Iā€™d more or less giving up hope of ever meeting someone I was out on a few dates and had a few very short relationships but everytime I seemed to think to myself this might be going somewhere it never It always seemed to be me getting hurt.

But about 6 months ago I was just answering a post from a girl on the old MS forum I canā€™t even remember what I was about but we just seemed to hit it of thereā€™s not a day goes by but weā€™re not in touch or on the phone.

We both have MS but that never even enters or minds yes we can share stuff about it and be ourselfs but we look past or disabilties and its the inner person weā€™ve got to know.

Distance is the only problem Iā€™m from N.Ireland and sheā€™s from Sommerset but weā€™re meeting up in less than 2 weeks time Iā€™m flying over to see her and spent some time together and If things work out aswell as we both hope distance wont be a problem weā€™ll get there.

Iā€™ll be 36 that week and so will she so its never to late.

Mark x

13

Thanks Mark - I know that those blokes were not worth my time, it did annoy me that I made the effort to go on a date with them for nothing though - my time and energy are precious to me, and wasting them on idiots was not what I wanted to do. I would like to find someone, but itā€™s seriously not happening just now, I donā€™t have the energy to go anywhere to meet anybody new.

I canā€™t really comment on your ex girlfriend - people do all sorts of things for crazy or selfish reasons - after telling me lots of reassuring things, my husband then chose not to fight his addiction but rather to keep drinking until he died - who knows why people do what they do.

Iā€™m glad youā€™ve found somebody though, it sounds like youā€™re getting on well - have a good birthday and a lovely trip to Somerset.

Luisa x

14

Chris,

Thankyou for posting this. Itā€™s a huge topic, and I expect it plays a big part of life for a lot of us.

I would like to just go to sleep and not wake up. Nothing dramatic, but I really donā€™t want to find out what the future holds.

My antidepressent dose has just been upped because Iā€™ve been feeling much more down recently. And my GP has referred me to get counselling or whatever I need. I also went into meltdown and lost it completely. Which is when I went back to my GP.

Iā€™m not ā€˜that badā€™ yet, but even being given money thanks to my employers ā€˜back-up planā€™ has not been easy to deal with. Do you know the adverts with the man whipping table cloth off the table and then back on again without sending everything flying around the room?

Thatā€™s what my employers have for me.

I donā€™t what advice on how to kill myself, I need advice on how to not want to end my life!

Ellen

15

Hi Chris,

I think most of us will agree that itā€™s very easy to be judgmental about almost anything - which weā€™re probably all guilty of to some degree or another.

No one knows what their future holds though, and no one knows how it must feel to suddenly find themselves in such a dark place - unless theyā€™ve experienced it first hand. So, for your honesty & frankness alone I thank you for your post. Yes, suicide is a subject that most people canā€™t or wonā€™t talk about, probably because if weā€™re being honest we canā€™t imagine ever feeling so bad that we feel itā€™s the only option left.

Thankfully Iā€™ve never found myself in such a place and hopefully I never will but should it ever happen then Iā€™d like to think that I could find a way out too.

Debbie xx

1 Like
16

Hi Chris,

Suicide is a subject I have given a lot of thought to over the years. It may be because I suffer from bipolar disorder and other mental health problems.

My first thought about suicide were as a consequence of straightforward depression.
They were mostly quite violent thoughts of self decapitation.
I think the cocktail of prescription drugs including antidepressants didnā€™t very much.
I know that the use of drugs like Seroxat and Effexor are widely discussed as being a factor in suicidal thoughts.

What it eventually comes down to is how you cope with life in general when you have MS.

I have been seeing a psychiatrist for several years.
I find I donā€™t cope very well. I found I could not access any help with sorting out various problems including practical problems of a home without heating and in desperate need of repair.

I am not a high priority for my local social services.

Forget about MS symptoms.

I find I can deal with pain and continence issues the lack of sensory information when you cant tast things and you cant smell things, at the end of the day it come down to your personal quality of life.

When mental health issues take over ones life itā€™s another matter.

When I say I cant cope I have had to try and deal with ESA form, and an employer who would not allow me to return to work and now appears to have sacked me.
The whole thing has left me a lonely and broken person.

I find I need the company of other people to thrive and I have now lost much of my initiative and motivation in life.

I did some research on suicide and decided against the gory death and decided that Nitrogen gas is the best option as I understand that it produces as slightly euphoric death.

Will I ever go through with my thoughts of ending my life ?

I donā€™t know.

It will probably depend on the outcome of my tribunal with both ATOS and my employer and if I can do anything to improve my quality of life.

If I do decide to end my life I will not leave my body to be discovered by a poor unsuspecting stranger to deal with.

Lets face it, it would not be pleasant for anyone who is unaccustomed to seeing a dead body to deal with.

I will either sneak into a hospital and try and find an empty secluded space where I can don a hood and asphyxiate myself with a small cylinder of Nitrogen gas and where people who are used to death can deal with my body.

I might even choose a church as and alternative as priests are quite good at dealing with death.

At the end of the day you can read any leaflet the MS society produce but if you can access anything you eventually have to give up.
I have been trying to access help for the past ten years. My local MS branch could not help me.
I have got some limited help in the last year from people I never knew and took pity on me but the time they can give me is quite limited.
My home is still cold. I cannot adapt or repair my home to make it more comfortable.
You get a thermometer to test the water temperature of your bath water so you donā€™t burn yourself or a strap device to open a bottle, but thatā€™s about it.
Do I want to live in a rotting home with a rotting central nervous system.
No I would choose to live like other people except for the fat that I have MS which as I say I can deal with.

So yes I have given it a lot of thought and I will eventually take my own life at a time and place I choose if my quality of life does not get any better.

17

[quote=EllenC]

Chris,

Thankyou for posting this. Itā€™s a huge topic, and I expect it plays a big part of life for a lot of us.

I would like to just go to sleep and not wake up. Nothing dramatic, but I really donā€™t want to find out what the future holds.

My antidepressent dose has just been upped because Iā€™ve been feeling much more down recently. And my GP has referred me to get counselling or whatever I need. I also went into meltdown and lost it completely. Which is when I went back to my GP.

Iā€™m not ā€˜that badā€™ yet, but even being given money thanks to my employers ā€˜back-up planā€™ has not been easy to deal with. Do you know the adverts with the man whipping table cloth off the table and then back on again without sending everything flying around the room?

Thatā€™s what my employers have for me.

I donā€™t what advice on how to kill myself, I need advice on how to not want to end my life!

Ellen

Hi Ellen,

Sorry to hear things are a bit rough for you just now.

Do you have axcess to a MS nurse,if no then try and find one, hopefully they will point you in the right direction.

I found the GBT helped a lotā€¦

Your GP should be doing more to help you, rather than just giving you more pills.

I hope you find the help you need.

Till then Take Care Of Yourself.

Chris.

18

[quote=anonymouse]

Hi Chris,

Suicide is a subject I have given a lot of thought to over the years. It may be because I suffer from bipolar disorder and other mental health problems.

My first thought about suicide were as a consequence of straightforward depression.
They were mostly quite violent thoughts of self decapitation.
I think the cocktail of prescription drugs including antidepressants didnā€™t very much.
I know that the use of drugs like Seroxat and Effexor are widely discussed as being a factor in suicidal thoughts.

What it eventually comes down to is how you cope with life in general when you have MS.

I have been seeing a psychiatrist for several years.
I find I donā€™t cope very well. I found I could not access any help with sorting out various problems including practical problems of a home without heating and in desperate need of repair.

I am not a high priority for my local social services.

Forget about MS symptoms.

I find I can deal with pain and continence issues the lack of sensory information when you cant tast things and you cant smell things, at the end of the day it come down to your personal quality of life.

When mental health issues take over ones life itā€™s another matter.

When I say I cant cope I have had to try and deal with ESA form, and an employer who would not allow me to return to work and now appears to have sacked me.
The whole thing has left me a lonely and broken person.

I find I need the company of other people to thrive and I have now lost much of my initiative and motivation in life.

I did some research on suicide and decided against the gory death and decided that Nitrogen gas is the best option as I understand that it produces as slightly euphoric death.

Will I ever go through with my thoughts of ending my life ?

I donā€™t know.

It will probably depend on the outcome of my tribunal with both ATOS and my employer and if I can do anything to improve my quality of life.

If I do decide to end my life I will not leave my body to be discovered by a poor unsuspecting stranger to deal with.

Lets face it, it would not be pleasant for anyone who is unaccustomed to seeing a dead body to deal with.

I will either sneak into a hospital and try and find an empty secluded space where I can don a hood and asphyxiate myself with a small cylinder of Nitrogen gas and where people who are used to death can deal with my body.

I might even choose a church as and alternative as priests are quite good at dealing with death.

At the end of the day you can read any leaflet the MS society produce but if you can access anything you eventually have to give up.
I have been trying to access help for the past ten years. My local MS branch could not help me.
I have got some limited help in the last year from people I never knew and took pity on me but the time they can give me is quite limited.
My home is still cold. I cannot adapt or repair my home to make it more comfortable.
You get a thermometer to test the water temperature of your bath water so you donā€™t burn yourself or a strap device to open a bottle, but thatā€™s about it.
Do I want to live in a rotting home with a rotting central nervous system.
No I would choose to live like other people except for the fat that I have MS which as I say I can deal with.

So yes I have given it a lot of thought and I will eventually take my own life at a time and place I choose if my quality of life does not get any better.

Hi Friend,

Not sure anything i say will help you but will give it a go.

Have you recieved your p45 from your employer if so what are the reason for your dismisal.

I think i would visit my local CAB and see if they can help in anyway.

Do you have a soical worker,if not get one and see if they could help you with your house if nothing else they should point you in the right direction.

Is it your house or the councils,if it is your house and as you say there is a lot of work to be done,would it not be better if you sold it and ask the council to rehouse you.It could be something to look in to.

I am suprised the MS society could not help you in some,i would try them again.

As i said no great ideas except that you just have to keep trying,as you cant live the way you do just now.

I hope things get better for you soon.

And the site here is a good one for letting of steam.

Take Care Of Yourself As Best You Can.

Chris.

19

Hi One and All.

Firstly thank you, for all your input on this subject i have learnt a lot mostly how people cope and how they get by from day to day.

I am not sure why i posted this or what i hoped to achieve,i think i just wanted to be able to put this to bed and not to wake it up till i have a need for it, if at all.

Before i found this site i thought that i was going mad,it made me aware that a lot of people are just like me,we cant all be going mad or somebody would have told us.

One posser before i go, if you go to Dignitas would your life insurance pay out,lets hope none of us have to find out.

Till The Next Time,

Take Care.

Chris

20

Hi Chris,

Your post was honest and full of feelings that must strike a chord with a lot of us. Thankyou !. Last year i was in a very black space and yes i looked at Dignitas as a way out. The site was horrible, cold and if you saw the TV program the most sadest of places with a lack of TLC. The loss of me not being around for my family stopped me. The old MS forum helped me through my black space as i call it. These guys (Pollx, Magnum,Anitra) and many others helped me more than they will ever know! I sallute them all !

I met a guy in the next town to where i live. He was collecting for MS and was in a wheel chair. We bothed laughed because after just a few mins we were chatting about bowel accidents. Total stranger yet so personal a subject. A year ago if i was asked about this i would have got in a rite old state. Now i was laughing with a fellow MSr.

The mental scars that our MS gives us, stay with us if we let them, however scars can fade and heal with the right kind of help.

Thats it, i,m done cognative problems have started.

Jane, domesticgoddess xxx

1 Like