hi simon i once replied to you before, months ago! blinkin heck, i thought torture was illegal. as a member of the armed forces you will be used to preparing for battle. fight well, i wish you victory! carole x
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Hi Carole
yup, it has been dragging on a while but now, just like back then, it’s a case of gritting your teeth and keep putting one foot in front of the other and repeating. Obviously not in front of anyone from ATOS though 
thank you though
Si
I have just been digging out my wife’s pip stuff to chase up,she had a face to face 26th June(due to changes since getting lower rate originally), We requested the report the next day,then again 2 weeks later and got it a few days later.I don’t agree with it all but its honest enough and HCP gives my wife enhanced rate for both daily living and mobility but we still haven’t had the decision through 6 weeks after she got the text saying it could take as much as 4 weeks! Will try and get on to em tomorrow after work.
Whilst i hate hearing these stories like yours (and our own experiences last few years)of the way people are treated by this system and horrible employers it is nice to hear from people like yourself who are big time up for the necessary fight on all fronts and i really hope others take inspiration and encouragement from your story.
Good luck against all of em Chukka
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cheers fella
To be honest, that’s the only reason I still update this thread. A cynic would suggest that ‘they’ rely heavily on people backing down and just struggling on. I don’t believe in the word ‘entitlement’ but I will fight them all the way for what I believe is ‘right’, ‘just’ and ‘fair’.
There’s absolutely nothing to be afraid of and it’s a good way of focussing those remaining brain cells
Si
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Will you have to go on Universal Credit? Another challenge, perhaps.
Now into 17th week without a response from PIP… Did the usual of phone them only to be told that I need to phone the DWP! Phoned the DWP, oh, you need to phone ATOS… Phoned ATOS, again, to be told “we’re just waiting for an appointment”. and so it continues… Still, I’m in court next Wednesday for the preliminary hearing for my employment tribunal, that should be fun Si
Finally had my PIP assessment, 23 weeks after applying.
It’s difficult to gauge how it went but based on the ESA assessment that I had many moons ago I’m anticipating the worst. The guy that did the assessment seemed pleasant enough but clearly didn’t know very much about MS and the variable nature of the disease. I struggled to string a sentence together at times but apparently I was very coherent…
They have a mountain of supporting evidence by experts and specialists in the field but I anticipate that that won’t count for much. We’ll see, I may be pleasantly surprised but I won’t hold my breath.
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PIP should be called Personal Dependence Payment - not “independence”.
What kind of evidence?
Remember PIP is a ‘functionality’ assessment - not about the condition MS. So functionality not conditionality is being
assessed. The assessor is collating NHS documents and carers statements on how much help/care you need everyday
with washing dressing, cooking.,. etc… Mobility who drives you, helps you get around?
Does the evidence describe what you can and can’t do for yourself re. Daily Living tasks and Mobility etc.,.?
Can you still drive?
Being able to drive is viewed as having ‘good functionality’.
Having a poor short-term memory means you will find it difficult to make a journey alone. So dependent upon
another person to go out and about.
Do you need or have a carer or help?? This can be informal un-paid care. Did your carer make a statement?
Did you supply a ‘Carer’s Assessment’?
If you get or need 35 hours of care or help per week for daily living tasks and mobility you will score
points and your carer will be able to apply for Carers Allowance. The two benefits are linked.
So PIP is really an assessment of proving dependency on others and the need for a carer.
The whole thing is Orwellian!
Good luck!
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That’s part of the problem though isn’t especially with variable conditions such as MS. Conditionality and Functionality go hand in hand and one will have a direct influence on the other. Right now, I’m coherent and relatively functional, give it a while and due to outside influences beyond my control that trigger my symptoms it will be a very different story
Si
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I’ve come late to the party and only just read the first post you wrote way back. You say you are “technically” employed and in later posts that they are not paying you. Can’t help wondering what the advantage is then? If you leave, even after being off sick, you’ll be voluntarily giving up your job. Something the jobentre don’t like. But its stopping you getting benefits. Also know (from experience) if you or partner have any savings you will be expected to live on them BEFORE you get ESA. We’re in that position now
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Hi,
there was no advantage to this situation, The Company is a global, multi-billion pound corporation. Like many Companies these days, they like to have glossy websites telling the world how great they are to work for and using words like “family”, “nurture”, “support” etc etc, you get the picture. Unfortunately, again like many Companies, they only pay it lip service and the moment they knew of my diagnosis they decided that the best course of action would be, not to have a meeting with me, not to see what adjustments could be made to aid a return to work and not to offer any support at all. What they chose to do, was simply cut me off, not return my correspondence, not pay me, replace me in my role and generally just hope that I’d resign, go away and cease to be an annoyance to them.
Only problem is, I’m not wired that way, I have always hated bullies in any format, it’s why I used to stand up to them in the playground, it’s why I joined the military and spent 12 years of my life standing up and trying to protect ‘the little guys’. Trouble is, I was now the little guy and I wasn’t in a good place. Without trying to sound too melodramatic, I have seen with my own eyes some of the worst things that human beings can do to each other. I was part of a search and rescue team that were one of the first on the scene at Lockerbie, just before my 19th birthday. By 21 I’d been involved in counter terrorist work at home and abroad and by 22 I’d been decorated for service in the gulf war. I was first on the scene following a motorbike crash and tried, in vain, to keep the rider alive. Once the doctor in the air ambulance pronounced him I saw the registration plate of the bike and realised it was a mate of mine. I went back to him and tried working on him again. I used to be able to run up mountains, to run 10 miles a day, to bench press 140kg. The point of all of this is that I can’t do any of that anymore and despite being ‘conditioned’ to deal with adversity, nothing could prepare me for the limitations that this disease brought me. I was so low that on more than one occasion, I considered suicide. I’m lucky that I have a very supportive partner though and some very close mates that ‘understand’.
My concern was, that if I felt like that, with my background and my history, someone who didn’t have that and didn’t have my support network, how would they cope when their employer treated them like this at the most vulnerable point in their life? So, back to the playground bully thing, I decided that I wasn’t just going to walk away (well more of a shuffle over a short distance ). I was going to call them on their actions and inactions and hold them accountable. They are not going to like the negative publicity that this will generate and I really don’t care. That’s the problem with bullies, they’re only tough when they have a ‘pack’ around them or are hiding behind a keyboard or a telephone. I’m not even slightly afraid of them or their pack of liars (sorry, lawyers) and if I’m physically able, I’m more then happy to take them on in a courtroom.
Yes, all of that made it very difficult to get ESA, yes it delayed things massively and then I had to deal with the work of fiction that was my ESA assessment but I took them on and I won. If I have to do the same for PIP then so be it, as for the work tribunal, bring it on. If they have to drag me out of there on a stretcher and straight to hospital then that’s what they’ll have to do…apparently I can be quite stubborn…
I’ve had it suggested that I’m doing this for money. Whilst I’m not naive to the fact that there ‘could’ be a compensation award for disability discrimination and my eventual unfair dismissal, I’ll be more than happy to walk away with nothing. Money doesn’t motivate me although it’s quite useful if you haven’t got any. Money doesn’t impact them in the slightest, they’ve got buckets of the stuff. I’m happy just to be able to see them in court and to hold them accountable for their actions in the vain hope that they’ll rethink their strategy and not do this again to someone else who perhaps wouldn’t cope.
Thanks for the question though, it’s actually been quite therapeutic writing this
good luck with your own battles
As always Chukka,its great to read your posts,love your fighting attitude and believe and hope that some others can take strength and inspiration from it. I really wish you luck in everything.
I am not an expert but from what i have read i can’t see how a tribunal could decide that your company have not discriminated against you as a disabled person according to the definitions within the Equality act,do you have help from the Equality commission?
If i may just correct you on one point(in case anyone else reading finds it useful)you made in response to Reddivine’s question regarding what the advantage of still being employed if not being paid.Whilst i don’t suggest its a good thing for everyone if like you it stops them receiving benefits but it should be a consideration for anybody in this situation that all the time you are employed (regardless of attendance) you are accruing holiday pay at either 5.6 weeks per year(legal minimum) or the higher amount stated in your contract of employment. If by any remote chance you missed out on this i think you can add a claim for unpaid wages to that tribunal hearing?!
Ollie
Hi Ollie
yes, you’re spot on, even if you’re absent through illness you still continue to accrue holiday pay. My lot, I assume, seemed to hope that I’d just go away so withheld the holiday pay that I’d accrued but not been paid for the financial year 2016/17. Spookily enough, after being completely cut off for 7 months, contact to the HR department from ACAS prompted a flurry of activity including a mysterious payment into my account which I assume to be the unpaid, accrued holiday that I’d earned. By another bizarre coincidence (their defence is littered with them), my immediate manager tried contacting me by phone, text and facebook messenger, the HR department sent an email to my regional manager to tell him to quickly arrange a ‘wellbeing’ meeting with me and the following day, once he’d confirmed availability, HR sent me a letter.
Obviously this is all complete coincidence and was in no way related to contact from ACAS, well, that’s their defence anyway. I’ve been sent a copy of their response to my claims against them. It’s honestly embarrassing, it’s just full of contradictions and blatant lies and as I have evidence to support everything I’ve said, I can’t see how they can possibly defend their actions.
That said though, I’m by no means a legal expert and I don’t have any representation, if they can satisfy a panel of judges that they’ve done nothing wrong then fair enough. If nothing else, it puts them on the radar and if, in the future, somebody else finds themselves in a similar position then it’ll certainly raise some eyebrows that they’ve been in court before for the same thing.
For me, it was never an option to resign because as rightly pointed out, the DWP take a dim view on that regardless of circumstance. Plus, I had a contract of employment so if they wanted rid of me then it was down to them to do something about it. They chose not to do that, they just cut me off. They are now trying to argue that they did follow due process in terminating my employment on the grounds of medical capability. Trouble is, they have to demonstrate that they gave consideration to alternative employment and that they followed a fair and reasonable process. By their own admission, they didn’t give any consideration to an alternative role, it took them 8 months to arrange a wellbeing meeting (12 months after my absence actually began), it took one full year to arrange an occupational health assessment (15 months after my absence began) and it took them 17 months to finally dismiss me having admitted, in a letter, that they did not follow any of the recommendations of the occupational health report and didn’t consider an alternative role. I’m no expert but that all seems rather incriminating and no sane person could consider that to be either ‘fair’ or ‘reasonable’.
I have to disclose all of my evidence by wednesday 21st Nov, should be a giggle when that little pile lands on their desk as the evidence is completely unambiguous and totally contradicts all of their excuses. If I suddenly disappear it’s probably because they’ve employed a hitman!
As ever, the point of all my ramblings is never give up, just try to stay calm, gather your evidence then count to 10. Punch them in the face when you get to 8 though, nobody ever expects that
Take it easy and thanks for the support
Si
Received confirmation today, I have been awarded the standard rate on the daily living allowance which seems reasonable. I was not awarded anything on mobility which I will dispute.
Well, I say I was awarded nothing, I was only awarded 4 points, they acknowledged my limited mobility (the walking less than 200m bit) but awarded zero points, despite all the evidence for the whole planning a journey part.
As I say, I will dispute that part through mandatory reconsideration, I’m not even sure how they reach that conclusion from an assessment that took place in my home and lasted less than 1 hour.
The good thing is that it was backdated to the 5th June so that was a very welcome bonus, just got to sort out my MR for the mobility bit but I’ll wait until my brain is functioning a little better.
Not much news on the work tribunal front. I’ve submitted my evidence to support my claim, their lawyers sent me the first draft of the ‘bundle’ of evidence that needs to go to court. I went through it with a fine tooth comb and found out of over 300 pages, about 280 pages was the evidence that I’d submitted to them and that there were mysteriously over 30 pages missing. By a bizarre quirk of fate, all of those missing documents were ones that supported my claim, contradicted their version of events and incriminated them. I listed all the missing documents and advised their lawyer that I would add that list of documents to my evidence as it suggests that they are being a little underhand.
That’s about it, getting there…very slowly…
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