IDS comments

Hello to everyone

This is a very interesting thread.

Many countries do not provide DLA, ESA etc, I think we are lucky to have such provisions. OK in a few countries the state looks after you in an even better way… Within the UK in many cases the amount of money is insufficient but it is better than nothing…

I do believe that there are a significant number of peoplke in receipt of DLA/ESA that either do not deserve it or who already have sufficient funds.

Maybe the level of the award should be related to the amount of tax the household has to pay. ESA works that way

Interesting idea…

Well said anu

Des

Hello,

Read this link http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100158032/fifteen-years-on-incapacity-benefit-then-told-you-are-fit-to-work-its-a-very-big-moment/

I’m not a Telergraph reader but there must be an element of truth in what the reporter is saying. This is why DLA and ESA claimants must be reviewed on a regular basis

Thanks

For me, this hits the nail on the head. I’m not opposed in principle to checking that public money is being properly spent, whether it is on benefits, Government contracts, NHS, public administration costs or whatever, and tightening things up where they have got a bit slack, as things tend to do. That’s just basic good governance. But it seems to me vital that this scrutiny happens across the board and that ‘lost’ tax revenues are pursued with every bit as much vigour. The tax that is due and is evaded illegally is just as much part of public funds as the benefit falsely claimed. Both perpertators are taking the piss and I don’t care for either of them.

If we are all to get along together there needs to be confidence that the same rules apply to all of us, or the law loses public confidence and the legitimacy that comes from that. At the moment it does feel that the rich are still getting away with it, and that doesn’t feel right to a lot of people, me included.

Alison

What sort of costs are there with her care? Well, let’s see… Physio, splints and braces which for a growing child need replacing every 6 months, replacement wheelchairs (the NHS may well “loan” them but not as frequently as a growing child needs them replaced), respite so her parents can recharge because around the clock care for a disabled child is somewhat different to round the clock care for a non disabled child, extra costs for meal prep as I can imagine that the parents would frequently need to rely on more expensive quicker to prepare meals, medications for spasticity and pain, aids and interventions to enable the child to attend kinder and later school, assistance for the other children (if any) to have time out from their disabled sibling (siblings of disabled kids have well recognised needs and difficulties too), extra doctors appointments, specialists appointments… the list goes on.

Surely as a person living with a disability yourself you can see the costs associated with having a disability???

Belinda

If the person judging a family with a girl of 4 suffering cerebal palsy thinks disability is cost free then I suggest that person shouldnt be on here, because it costs me, cost me to bring up my special needs son, is still costing and no amount of label sticking to say he ‘looks normal’ can take away his congenital deficits which require constant care.

Im totally gobsmacked that anyone purporting to be disabled doesnt have a clue - god help us.

I don’t think this debate is going to get anywhere, and it would not get anywhere even if full information was available, which it is not.

Please may I suggest that we all call it a day on this thread? There are strong feelings around, and it’s good to give the issues an airing, but there comes a point when it’s best to leave things as they stand. We’ve all had our say. Please can we leave it there now, everyone?

Alison

x

You just don’t get it Rebbecca, so shocked at your responce!! I was angry last night too and responded to your post about my sister and nephew. i didnt get across as much as i wanted to say as i was so upset and angry at the attitude and judgement. Thanks to everyone else for your words i could not write.

Moggie

You just don’t get it Rebbecca, so shocked at your responce!! I was angry last night too and responded to your post about my sister and nephew. i didnt get across as much as i wanted to say as i was so upset and angry at the attitude and judgement. Thanks to everyone else for your words i could not write.

Moggie

Rebecca, none of us know the full story except the family involved. They have been assessed in this harsh climate as needing the DLA so one can presume they do. How would you like to take this thread and your comments over to your neighbour and get his reaction to it?

B

Sorry, didn’t see your thread Alison, yes you are right, i just get upset as it’s so close to home for me. Everyone entiled to their opinion, sorry

Moggie

IDS is pure scum. He will get his in time. Rebbecca 85 I would suggest is either a troll or someone who has had MS for 5 minutes and is not really affected by it. Remember those days everyone. DLA is an essential payment for all who are disabled. It is literally the difference between life and death. All MS’ers should stick together and help end this nightmare of a coalition. They hate everyone who earns less than 60K a year. To us… the disabled. A needle in the arm is what they would give us quite happily without even thinking about it. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I believe the Nazi’s did something similar to the disabled in the 1930’s.

The riots were a warning to the nation. You cannot take from those that have nothing. Sooner or later they turn around and bite.

All the disabled have at the moment is a vote. Make sure you all use it wisely.

Who knows we may one day return to a nation full of smiles. Like the one we had before May 2010, when the scum who attempted during the eighties to kill the working class, and in some cases suceeded, were somehow given the chance to finish the job, propped up by Clegg and friends. Been to areas like Barnsley, Stoke, South Wales lately. Once areas of full employment. Now areas of poverty and class A drug addiction.

People before profit.

No need to apologise Moggie. As you say, everyone is entitled to their opinion and you are only stating yours.

B x

Oh please don’t apologise! It’s just that I think the longer this thread goes on, the more upset people are going to feel. But that’s just my view - it’s still a free country, Moggie (or so they tell me.)

A

x

Hello Allison100,

I tend to agree with you, it has run its course, strayed from the point and pointed out one or two facts I was unaware of. I’m certainly a lot wiser after reading assorted articles and the thread

I have enjoyed it and I will probably return to read over all the points at some time or another

Someime we’ll find a new thread that generates as much interest, I suspect that it will have to be political, shame…

Thanks to evereyone. I didn’t start it, blame it on heathwood.

Cheerio

[quote=“Rebecca85”] I will respond to rizzo as she has explained some of the costs associated with her disability. [quote=rizzo]

[/quote] 4 year old: Medications: free (NHS) Supplements: I do not think she takes any Gym fees: none, she has physio provided free through school or NHS which is able to meet her needs Petrol: Not sure of the exact figures, but to be fair her dad only passed his driving test a few months ago, they managed without a car to that point. Aids: provided free through NHS Home help: none needed as Dad does housework while girl is at school Car: provided through Motability, but see point about petrol Cost of food: again not sure, but she is entitled to free school meals which should offset some of the cost Care: £0 as provided by Dad, £0 for an assistant at school (provided by school), £0 for respite care provided by council Extra trips to hospital, clinics etc: reimbursed for travel costs through NHS low income scheme so £0 Clearly, her costs are somewhat less than yours rizzo since she is a child, more of her needs are met through school and NHS. Surely it would make sense for either more of your needs to be met, or for you to get more money to be able to meet those needs yourself? DLA is supposed to be based on need, so why the huge difference in needs for people receiving the same amount of benefit? I am not saying that this girl and family are not needy, simply that she is not as needy as some who are receiving the same benefit. And don’t forget that there are other benefits that dad receives for her such as extra child tax credits, so in reality she may receive more money than some who are less needy.[/quote]

Oh my goodness Rebecca.

You have no idea if she takes supplements or requires a special diet do you, or actually very much beyond what you see and judge when you see them in the street.

The father has possibly had to incur the cost of driving lessons in order to transport his disabled child around. He wouldn’t have previously had to pay for petrol.

The father does the housework while she is at school, I don’t know how you know this but presume you’ve been peeping through the windows or gossiping with other ‘concerned neighbours / concerned readers of The Scum’.

Care – you say cost £0 because it’s provided by dad – ergo – dad doesn’t / can’t work because he’s a carer for his disabled child – this is saving the state £’s in residential care for the little girl.

Contrast this little girls case where her family receives whatever level of DLA she is entitled to (rest assured, this will have been very carefully assessed, despite what you believe, entitlement is not automatic) with the case of tragic Ivan Cameron whose parents, it is said (I can’t confirm this) claimed DLA on his behalf.

His father never fails to exploit the memory of his deceased little boy in an effort to gain credibility and prove that he ‘understands’ what the parents or disabled children have to go through.

Ivan Cameron’s father doesn’t mention how his private wealth (growing every day no doubt through aforementioned tax loopholes and other jolly ruses) paid for 2 x 24 hour carers for his son and a nanny for his other children.

Ivan’s caring daddy has presided over the most scandalous cuts to multiple funding streams to disabled people ever witnessed. He’s introduced ESA which has seen the deaths of people previously found ‘fit for work’ by his lackey French poodles (don’t give) ATOS, he’s cut Housing Benefit, he’s cut Supporting People, he’s cut the Independent Living Fund, he’s migrating severely disabled people currently on DLA, causing them anxiety and stress to PIP.

And don’t forget the swathes of cuts through local government which has had a devastating impact on services for disabled people.

Ivan’s caring daddy is in the process of destroying services and benefits to disabled people, this little girl will hopefully grow into an adult, the support network that was set up to catch her when she falls is being systematically dismantled.

Ivan’s daddy turned his back on those with disabilities and society’s most vulnerable in his first year in office, funding and subsequently services for disabled people is being slashed.

‘Benefit cheats’ and your view that this little girl receives a level of DLA that her condition does not merit is the rhetoric of the right wing media. Most disabled people MANAGE, benefits don’t meet the actual cost of care, they contribute toward it.

Ivan’s daddy doesn’t actually give a sh!t about the welfare of this little girl or any other disabled person, he chose the option of favouring (w)bankers over the vulnerable.

Sorry, I realise I went way off track there, but your kind of attitude is what this government want all the sheeple of the UK to have, makes it so much easier and less messy to slip their through their heinous and devastating legislation.

Without doubt Labour made mistakes, but saving the NHS in 1997 was not one them. The NHS was on its knees in those days due to eighteen years of neglect by the Tories. Under Labour we got forty five thousand more doctors and eighty five thousand more nurses, which all led to far shorter waiting times.

Now we are heading back to bad old days of the mid-90s with people left waiting on trolleys for hours on end in corridors. No top down reorganisation of the NHS Cameron said before the election and astonishingly, some voters actually believed him. I don’t think Liberal voters had this in mind when they went to the polls.

From memory, Labour did plan to review DLA, but not for existing claimants.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Pastor Martin Niemoller

Might be as well to heed these wise words, the divide and conquer tactics of the government seem to be working.

[quote=Rebecca85]I will respond to rizzo as she has explained some of the costs associated with her disability. [quote=rizzo]

I think that you have missed the point of Karens post.

It was about assumptions. She was illustrating that although people might assume her only cost was a walking stick she did have many other expenses. I would say that you are making assumptions about what is needed by this family. Unless you walk a mile in their shoes I don’t see how you can make such definitive comments about the costs involved raising their little girl.

Karen’s closing comment was extremely pertinent

“It’s easy to make judgements. It’s hard to get them right.”

If only I believed that were true! I agree that under Labour or New Labour the NHS did better than with the Tories but Labour were going to assess the disabled for work and DLA too. Perhaps they wouldn’t have been so ruthless but who knows as they would have to find money from somewhere, there does not seem to be too much between the 2 parties to me and I’ve given up with the Lib Dems, so where to go. The new NHS party or perhaps George Galloway.

Wendyxx