Cannabis Legalisation Campaign For Medicinal Purposes

Everyday living
41

Hi There Doctor Geoff,

I am not entirely sure what you are doing and just a little bit concerned at the fact you are trying to research me on 192. I came to this group in good faith to discuss seek support for something I am doing that is clearly quite relevant to M.s Sufferers across the UK. As for 192 itself, you wont find a record for me on there because I used their online form to remove my details from it. Sites like 192 can be a great asset but can also be easily abused. For a while after I got ill i was being bombarded by payday loan offers and debt management schemes and whatever else. The were getting my details from sites exactly like that. I am sure you can understand that when someone gets ill, finances can go to pot and thats exactly what happened to me. The calls didnt exactly help the situation so i did a search on google and guess what. Name popped up everywhere so I went through and filled in forms etc over a few days and put in requests for my personal info not to be on there.

I also had a bit of a problem with a complete nutter in 2012 as a result of my political views and also the fact I was going through an emotional meltdown (he decided to twist the knife at a time when i was vulnerable) at the time because of ill health. It was one of those times that I think many can relate to, particularly most of the people here. You think to yourself - what next! Suffice to say having that information on public sites made me very nervous and truly, I just didnt want to speak to the outside world. And so I had it taken down.

As for knowing which buttons to push, wellā€¦youā€™re right but that was not done intentionally. I wrote what I felt, the wording in the petition are my words, it is truly what I believe and if that has pushed buttons with the people on this forum then good, it makes me pleased that there are other people out there that may feel exactly the same way, that it should be a personal choice and that people I truly do believe that when push comes to shove, what right do the government have to say to someone who is ill, you dont have the right to use this thing that makes you feel better, particularly when you can buy things like alcohol and cigarettes over the counter and the NHS are supplying drugs that are far more dangerous and habbit forming. Take co-codomol for instance. You have codeine which is obviously addictive and you have paracetomol - I doubt anyone will argue that if you give it long enough, that stuff combined with other drugs on prescription can have one heck of a toll on your body. Take enough and the result is disastrous. I had a read of the little panflet in my prescription box. The side effects listed are fairly large. Then you have this little green stuff that to my knowledge has never been proven to have caused death to anyone (obviously there is a lack of research into the psychological effects of it). Why cant someone in pain have it? Itā€™s just mental.

I am trying to answer your questions btw, not to contridict you or be abbrasive but because I have no wish to have your mind playing on the fact that i may be some big company or some strange organisation playing tricks on a forum. If I knew this forum was here, I would have been on here years ago to speak with people who understand M.S and what its like. Maybe it would have helped with the isolation, i dunno. But I am here now, I hope to have pleasant and open exchanges and speak freely with everyone on here and I would hope that would include yourself.

In regards to your comments. I agree, no doubt someone will make a massive profit from it, that is the way of the world but as for the taxation, believe it or not I would not have a problem with that, particularly if it were helping to fund the NHS. The goverment being involved in taxation could also lead to licensing and quality control to make sure that the stuff being sold was of a certain quality which would reduce risks associated with buying it.

As for the weeks use etc, i agree, perhaps a limit on carrying a certain ammount and a boot up the rear end for intention to supply if you are over the limit. Of course it all boils down to the that

42

I totally agree with you. It should be your choice yeah! and thats exactly it. My mother takes gabapentin at the minute. Now I know what that stuff is like. I was on it for 2 years and then shifted to pre-gabalin. That was no fun I can tell you. Of course with legalisation for medicinal purposes aswell, you could take the real plant in another form like making tea with it or cooking it into something and of course you have loads of different types. It would take a bit of experimenting until you found a balance that helped, or as you say you could take the spray sativex if it were nice approved etc. But it would be nice to have a choice rather than playing guinea pig I guess. Thats what it is all about to me. Personal choice. Thats all it has ever been to me. The choice to try something that may or may not help you with pain. At least then you would know rather than constantly wonder.

FYI for the pain in my legs from the M.E, it took me 3 years to get a drug combination that works so I really feel for you on that one.

43

Thank you for that blosson and I really am glad I found this forum. May be what I have been looking for to fill a very real gap in my ability to care for my mother.

44

I wont go down the war route except to say I had family in both gulf wars and afghanistan and it was a hell of a waste of life. We need to stop sticking our nose in other countries businessā€¦excuse me while i slap myself for talking politics - its a hobby of mine and i am infamous for going off into big debates and rants.

As for your comment about going against the law, i did for myself as I mentioned in an earlier post. I got a boot in the ass from the police and im still waiting to hear from the proculator fiscal. Thats obviously triggered a big who ha with social services etc because in scotland a message gets sent to them from the police as a matter of course. Battle to come on wednesday. Its one of my reasons behind going at this - because frankly I find it unfair and disgusting to stop sick people getting medicine. Its mental. Especially when the stuff would make me more able and pain free allowing me to care better for my mother but the Ā£"$"Ā£$"Ā£ā€¦ was about to go into another rant. Sorry! Little bit of negative re-enforcement does the jobā€¦

At this time I would like to say sorry for your loss, it is not easy when that happens and I am sorry for that. I have to say I am not entirely sure about decriminalising every drug, there would definately need to be serious discussions on that one and I honestly dont think I am qualified enough to comment. What I would say is legalisation of the cannabis is a must, you are right, prohibition doesnā€™t work.

There has been an argument about cannabis being a gateway drug. Personally I donā€™t believe that to be true. I believe that its not so much the cannabis itself but the social circle that it travels in so to speak. My thinking is, it is illegal therefore the ones taking advantage of it and making a profit are hardened criminals and as such a lot of them deal in other things. The overall result is someone being exposed to other drugs in that circle and it progresses from there. The reason I think of it that was is because I know a group of people who are cannabis only. No other drugs allowed. If you are found to have taken something else you are history. The positive atmosphere and the lack of other drugs has meant that nobody in that 30 people has ever progressed to anything harder.

As for your comments on the jails. You are right, not only would it free up jail cells but it would also reduce the strain on the police force and indeed on other departments like social work etc. The savings that could be made could be awesome. I know police get very peaved when it comes to the paperwork they are doing and rather than booking someone for cannabis possession they would rather be out going after heroin pushers. A lot of police resources go into policing something that in my view doesnt need to be policed.

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Thank you for that.

46

It is scary the records they have on file. Not good to have in the public domain. As for myself I nee to be registered to vote. We have a referendum coming up in Scotland

47

The second aim would be to have a vote in the commons and then depending if its a yes or no will decide aim number 3. lol

48

OK, I now believe that Martin Keat(ing) is a real person. But, i still have one or two queries ā€¦

  • Scottish Independence. I thought that the Referendum was this year? If fat Alex gets his way, and takes Scotland out of the UK (and hence from Great Britain), do you really think that he will pay any attention to a petition to Westminster.
  • Why use inaccuracies to try to support your arguments?
  • The Ford Model T chassis was not made from hemp. It was the first car outside France to use Vanadium Steel.
    ( The original engine was set up to run on fuel obtained from hemp - what we now call biofuel)
  • There is a lot of research on the adverse psychological effects of Cannabis, not a shortage. I quoted:
    Multiple Sclerosis | 420 Magazine
    but you could also look at:
    http://www.youthbeyondblue.com/factsheets-and-info/fact-sheet-10-cannabis-and-your-mental-health/
    ā€Ž
    and note that the last one includes the following statement:
    ā€œTreating marijuana dependence is especially difficult when users donā€™t believe they have a problemā€

OK, you want to legalise pot, fine. Try it on the Scottish Parliament first.
And just remember - if you want to smoke it, it contains the same carcinogens as tobacco.

Geoff

49

Maybe petition Sativex to be available for all MS people instead of weed

That way people who have just given birth would not get stoned of their faces and actually look after their kids
like a resonsible adult.

Anon 2.0

50

What about people with ms, who have mental health disorders? they canā€™t take Sativex unfortunately

51

And they can take weed? LOL

Anon 2.0

1 Like
52

They canā€™t take it but they doā€¦ sad really, if you thought about it too much.

Iā€™m off for a cuppa and some cookies instead lol

53

Ha. very true, enjoy cookies

Anon 2.0

54

is Sativex only available if you can afford it?

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Hello [edited]

Iā€™m glad it works for you and sorry that you feel forced to grow the cannabis. I hope you keep safe and pain free

Take care of yourself

56

l get my Sativex on prescription. Approved by a neuro and supported by my GP. Before it became licensed for MS use - 3 1/2 yrs ago - l did get it on private prescription - something all GPā€™s can do. A little goes a long way - so compared to many meds - it is not expensive for the nhs.

lt is used more now for cancer patients - as a pain relief it does not leave the patient ā€˜out of itā€™ like morphine.

l was interested in the ANON post of the member who does grow his own ā€˜medicineā€™. lt sounds like he/she knows what they doing as there are many strains of cannabis. And by doing this they are insuring that there med is of the same quality and strength.

Which is what would happen if cannabis became legal and prescribed as a medicine. You need to know the exact dose to take.

With the Sativex - it does take a while to have an effect. And you can be tempted to take another spray as you think it is not working. But with nil side-effects compare with Baclofen/Tizanidine - which rendered me useless - and certainly not fit to drive. ln fact unable to get out to the car. Thankfully, Sativex has been tested/researched as being completely safe for users to drive/operate machinery. [Pathways mag] Now, l err on the safe side - l do not drive when taking meds. Protecting my 48yrs no claim!!! - And everyone else.

57

Good effort Matinā€¦Take no notice of those that would have you believe in the omnicience of their intellect by trying to attack you with their intellectual game playingā€¦wiseacreing away as though they doā€¦Keep up the good work.

58

Evening Doctor Geoff

Thats Keatings - with an s btw - but never mind. I am glad that you feel that you can comfortably confirm that I am infact real. Being that you are a psychologist that gives me great relief. I would hate to think that I am indeed a figment of my own imagination. LOL

I do however get the distinct impression that you seem to have unresolved feelings of anger towards me for some reason because from the moment I came in here you went full attack without provcation. Possibly just a defence mechanism or is it something more freudian? Sorry sorry - I couldnā€™t resist. But seriously mate, you need to cool the heels a bit. Im not entirely sure what the problem is but you are definately being quite meow in your comments.

Scottish Independence referendum: You are correct that it is this year but as someone with knowledge of the referendum (very detailed knowledge) I can tell you that countries are not just part of a union one day and independent the next. It takes years to go through the process, even with a devolved administration such as the Scottish Parliament. So whether I like it or not (and i dont btw) we are stuck with Westmonster for at least 2-3 years.

As for the model ford t, you are correct, the PRODUCTION models were made from vanadium steel. The original design however which was designed by henry himself at his home was not.

If you are a researcher of any kind of alternative information, you already know this to be true -especially given that the technology already exists today to make cars smarter, safer and more eco-friendly (no fossil fuels necessary.) Henry Ford spent more than a decade researching and building his Model-T car which was not only constructed from hemp but was also designed to run off hemp bio-fuel.

According to Popular Mechanics, Henry Fordā€™s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields with the car. The car, ā€˜grown from the soil, as the photographer labelled it ā€™ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel.The even took footage of henry handing a shovel to an employee and getting him to batter the car. The video is on Youtube if you would like to check

As for a psychological side of things well I will leave that to the experts but even you should acknowledge that the research is severly lacking. As for taking psychologists words for it, im afraid I dont put much faith in them considering I was having postural hypertension issues and they diagnosed me as suffering from ā€œanxietyā€ a number of years ago. I spent a number of months being dismissed by doctors because of it and ended up at war with the NHS. The end result was a formal letter and retraction of that diagnosis after it was discovered something more sinister was going on inside my body which is believed to have possibly been the cause of the M.E, either that or was running alongside it. In the words of 1 consultant ā€œanother few months and you would probably have been deadā€ I believe is what he said. So you can understand my very low opinion of psychologists and psychiatrists.

As for the main topic. This is about choice, pure and simple that and the imposing of a governments will on its people. Denying the right to treatment. It is a truth we all know that there are natural treatments out there for a lot of things. Sativex while a great thing (unfortunately not available to everyone) is still a pharmacuetically produced drug. It is synthetic.

With proper monitoring of cannabis intake I see no reason for it to be denied to patients and if you wish to argue the point I suggest you look up the statistics from last year. 300,000 people died from drugs prescribed by doctors in the UK. There were zero deaths attributed to cannabis use. While psychological effects may be an issue, a serious one that must be taken seriously, and i would abdecate otherwise, it still does not give the government the right to restrict something which is beneficial to the people using to it.

We all know at the end of the day that whether it be cannabis or a prescribed drug a consequence can be addiction. But I have seen people coming off of cannabis and it is fairly ok, like giving up smoking. With the right support they can do it just fine. Transfer that to dihydrocodeine, something which I am sure a lot of people on this very forum take. Well you take enough of them for long enough and see what happens. I know, I took them every day for two years. I came off them when I was transferred to pre-gabalin for my legs. I was sick, I was shaking, I had cold sweats. It was torture and I do believe the side effects listed with the likes of co-codomol are far worse than any associated with cannabis. But at the end of the day, should that not be the patients choice on whether or not to make an informed decision. I believe it should be.

Now based on the fact that you have been rather blunt with me (perhaps a polite way to say you have tried to attack me since i first joined up) this will be the last time I reply to yourself Doctor Geoff.

Thank you for your input and have a nice weekend.

59

Sativex is only available within certain NHS trusts because of the cost to the NHS. That is obviously different in Scotland and England/Wales aswell due to the NHS being devolved in Scotland. But in a way yes. It is only available in the richer areas.

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The latest Pathways mag arrived yesterday. This is the bi-monthly publication for MS-UK - who were MSRC. Lots again this month about the benefits and research into cannabis. This magazine is well worth subscribing to. Lots of letters and articles from MS sufferers about different ā€˜medsā€™ that they have tried and failed with and also walking aids that they have discovered to be really worthwhile using.

l live in Warwickshire - and l have no trouble getting Sativex on prescription. As for cost - there are so many more expensive - and ineffectual meds prescribed to pwms.

l do not have a MS Nurse or a MS Therapy centre near me. The nearest is about 30 miles away - so not viable. And in 31yrs - the few times l have seen a neuro - he/she certainly had little experience of MS - as admitted by them!

To get my Sativex - l gathered as much info as l could find and took it to my GP - she was willing to give me a private script - then when Sativex became licensed for MS use - about 3 1/2 yrs ago - she made sure l got mine on the nhs. She did contact a neuro for his say-so.