Cannabis is a plant!!!! Sativex is a drug.

Everyday living
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Hello again,

So today i spoke to my Ms Nurse about getting Sativex prescribed. I was told outcome unlikely as the cost is too high, but maybe able to get it privately. Now this makes NO sense to me. Please let me explain:

I am lucky I have only had this disease for about 2 years. When I got diagnosed i was a recreational weed smoker. I went to work, but i found it a nice way of unwinding after the day. (many enjoy using alcohol, i always found, i felt fresher the next day smoking weed to drinking alcohol. each to their own).

When i was eventually diagnosed (like many, it could have be, but wasn’t a easy process) i was told about the many drugs they can offer to aid to pain. I was a bit wary as i think most pharmacy drugs are poison (my view is that pharmaceutical company prescribe these drugs to aid a problem as well as cause a new one) but as my spasm in my feet were terrible and my legs were stiff and painful to i thought id try anything.

I was prescribed (sorry for my spelling here but they make it hard)

Amitriptyline - this drug although can be prescribe as a anti-depressent, send me to a dark place, i was highly depressed, i could even get out of bed most days (still have the odd day). It’s hard to write but i had thoughts of ending it all (glad i didn’t0

gabapentin - this drug wasn’t good either, I was craving crap food, i gained alot of weight as i don’t exercise like i did pre MS. that also lead to depression.

carbamazepine - This drug i didn’t get on well with either.

With all these drugs prescribed ALL in the warning lefeat said DON’T take if:

you have kidney problems, heart problems, stomach problms etc. why does it warn this? because its un-natural any the body can only cope with a little bit of “poision”.

whilst on this medication i stopped smoking cannabis, did it help my feet NO. Did i feel better? NO my feet were still cramping up, i still had tremours down my right arm, my headaches were as bad if not worse. and now my head waas very heavy, thinking was more of a chellege. O got so low i didn’t want to leave my room and could only think of negative things.

I decided to stop taking those “man made drugs” and look elsewhere for a “herbal remedy”.

A year down the line. I have improved so much!!! phyically, mentally and emotionally, yes my feet still bother me but my mind is normally distracted enough not to notice. I smoke between £60-£100 of cannabis per week. its expensive but i believe it’s natural and harm free (and i know the strain and the grower). I can see how much it has helped, my feet now rarley spasm (still sentive), my tremour in my arm has gone and when im high people have be impressed with my walking. Most people don’t have a issue with cannabis (may have part took themself), the ones that do (proberley never have part took and dont understand) believe it’s illegal for a reason even though studies now prove the benefits. i’m guessing most people that don’t approve drink alcohol (a poison with NO health benefits) because they believe its social acceptable. I can only try to explain the difference in me.

The one thing that i do thats bad is smoke. I smoke to get high. I smoke cannabis joints only. i have tried to use it with food. This way i can quit smoking. The effects when eating it were sensational. Ill try to explain, when you smoke cannabis, your brain feels the high as much or more than the body, this doesn’t help cognitive behaviour (but atleast i can always blame the weed). When eaten its defiantly more of a body high, my legs felt better than they have done since Ms. But eating cannabis is even more expensive. £200 the make great cannabutter (cannabis butter) eating 3/4 cookies a day doesn’t fit with my diet.

I was also approached by a man in his car, who told me he could help me as he make cannabis oil for cancer patients. he also was on his way to give a old gentleman a bath. (now where i live South Yorkshire good Samaritans are few and far between, actually never met one. Very cautious) and I know cannabis oils are also super expensive So I thought Id try a get it legally, before entertaining this idea.

I spoke with my MS nurse, who told me one doctor in my area has been able to get funding for only 2 patients who are both in wheelchair bound state and they have to take other drugs. I think i was told that i would have to try the drugs i mentioned before aswell as other drugs in high dosage,and only after taking all that “poison” i may be considered.This could be a long drawn out process, which may cause me much pain. I think I done bloody fantastic this year being able to get off them (i have tysbri treatment each month, everyone there is taking some sort of prescription drug, apart from me.) I SMOKE CANNABIS. The only other way is private which again i’ll be paying for which is part of the reason to ask for sativex.

Im confused!!!

Do I really have to become worse before i can get better?

Keep smiling

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You receive regular Tysabri doses but attribute your improving condition to smoking spliffs?

Were you toking around the time of your initial MS diagnosis? If so, why did the weed not help prevent your symptoms back then?

With all things considered, it appears that you are clutching at straws to defend a behaviour you seem to feel needs justification.

Do not get me wrong, i very much support your ‘pro-cannabis’ stance and I wish there were greater impetus to amend current legislations to allow a greater availability, not only to those who need it medicinally, but also those who want it recreationally.

But to label all DMDs as poison and to suggest a pharmaceutical conspiracy where corporations work to perpetuate a dependence on their products… well you sound more like a paranoid pot head quite frankly. :slight_smile:

All the best; no top loading; don’t bum the roach and always remember the rules of the two toke pass.

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Hi there,

The safety and efficacy of cannabis is widely debated by medical professionals.

Cannabis is a class B drug and illegal in this country. People with MS have been been prosecuted for possession in the past, and there is no indication from law enforcement that this is likely to change in the future.

We would like to remind all forum users this is a public forum and can be seen by anyone.

Many thanks,

Steph (Admin)

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Admin concerns are appreciated, but as i am neither in possession, nor am even in the UK, i feel confident that i am safe from prosecution.

With regard to ‘the debate’ regarding cannabis safety… there is a concern for those predisposed towards psychological disorders as to the probability that cannabis could provoke an undesired side effect.

But as for matters of drug addiction, a burden upon society, the risk of over dose or of death… well it has gone past the point of debate and it’s irrefutable that cannabis is absolutely HARMLESS in these regards. compare these considerations to those consumers of alcoholic beverages; alcohol being in itself a poison, an addictive compound, a burden of society etc etc…

People are quick to warn that at least one person has died due to taking tecfidera (a legal and very popular drug) and yet no one has ever died from cannabis despite it being used for centuries (and yet it is an illegal, class B narcotic).

The law is an arse. Law Enforcement agencies are not in a position to comment on the likelihood of whether the legal / illegal status of anything is about to change; as any ‘jobs worth copper’ will tell you, they merely enforce the laws, they do not make them. Politicians effect change and they will only do this if there is a public perception and pressure for such a change (gay marriage anyone?)

And so yes indeed, this is a public form; and members of this forum are mostly / entirely from a section of the public who would benefit tremendously from a change in attitude towards things such as cannabis. i would hope more members of the public would speak up loudly and forcibly in favour of even more dialogue of this extremely relevant topic of debate, especially in a public forum.

As you say, sadly in the UK, possession of cannabis (or to be precise THC and cannabinoid compounds and NOT actual cannabis plant matter) is illegal. but talking about cannabis and its inherent and proven benefits to many, especially those dealing with MS is not illegal.

I feel it is inappropriate for anyone of ‘forum authority’ to make statements advising an exaggerated sense caution, as by doing so, they effectively promote self-censorship and thus a perpetuation of the status quo.

But all of the above is just my opinion. Please do not delete my user account for expressing it. Whilst i appreciate this forum is accessible publicly, i am also acutely aware that is is managed and administered privately.

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Thank you for the comments sorry if it offended anyone.

I didn’t want to sound like I saying cannabis is the primary reason for not having a relaps. Because that would be naive. Yes it’s the tysabri.

And yes maybe I am a little paranoid. But you MUST relies that the pharmacy company that’s sell these drugs to us. DO possess enough money to control governments. These companies WOULD rather treat patients rather than cure them.

Reachers have prove many modern diseases didn’t exist 50/100 years ago, and their has been PROVE to support that certain DMDs have lead to patients suffering other diseases later in life.

Now if I’m being more paranoid I would warn you again certain TV show like “britians and got talent”, “Xfactor” and such as I believe the government uses these shows to get subliminal messages to the public.

but anyways proberly just the weed

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Hi there, I can understand you 'self medicating" I too have partaken in the taking of it & used to help palliative care patients in access to it, however, my concern is the offer of cannabis oil. It is a class A drug in the UK & expensive because it is highly dangerous to make, so be careful with the offer of that one, I know of a person jailed for producing it & he hadn’t even passed it on, so just a word of warning Tracey x

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oil is very very dangerous to make, dont let anyone tell you other wise, (I’ve never had it or pot, but grew up in a town well known for having it easy to get). some of the chemicals used can be very explosive.

I wouldn’t think its the pot helping so much as the Tysabri and a lot of the “modern” diseases have only been recently classified/discovered because there are finally ways to test for them, not that they were never around before.

I’m all for alcohol being more regulated, but I don’t see pot becoming any less vilified in the UK due to the stigma around it, even if it can help some people.

um I don’t think daft shows give subliminal messages to the public more that they act as a distraction from more important issues. everyone is entitled to believe what they want but…there does come a point when people stop listening when a person sounds a little not all there

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With this i do not agree. The potential conflict of interest is obvious, but is ill-conceived.

The ‘good’ thing about the drug market being so lucrative, is that it is highly competitive. HIGHLY COMPETITIVE!

Can you imagine Drug Company A happily ‘treating’ patients, only for Drug Company B to come along with a cure?

Which do you suppose would gain all of the interest?

There is no end of illnesses requiring medication and cure. Drug Company B could go on and carry their good name into new arenas of research and development. The world of sickness and all the dollars it contains would be their’s for the taking.

Consider Tecfidera. It’s release to great fanfare and successful trial results was quickly met with news of a fatality. Who broke that news? A competitor of Biogen (the makers of Tecfidera and Tysabri). What salient parts of that (albeit tragic) situation were omitted from initial publication? The victim was on a cocktail of drugs; had confirmed PML; requested to continue taking Tecfidera for several years after PML diagnosis; probably died from other complications but was on Tecfidera at the time and thus, it was recorded as circumstantial. Tecfidera is not even a cure, and that is as underhand and nefarious the pharmaceutical industry will get these days.

Big Pharm wants your money. And to get it, they need to be the big dogs on the block. Nothing gives you more size (market place prominence) than unparalleled success rates. A cure = 100% success.

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Hi BenjaminHippie,

I like your style. I’ve never smoked cannabis myself though your idea of getting off prescription drugs and onto something more natural is, to me anyway, the way to go. Drug companies are businesses. They aren’t charities. They exist to make money - and lots of it. Yes, they come up with various chemical combinations that actually help certain problems, and I’m sure if I were terminally ill and in a lot of pain I’d be very grateful.

But we live in a day and age where prescription drugs are the first course of action and they shouldn’t be. We need to do what we can for ourselves first, clean up our diets, water, environment, stress etc first. We want to live and eat badly then expect there to be a pill that sorts out the consequences for us.

If I’m feeling the need to unwind, I listen to music. Although I 'm into classic rock, The GOASTT - Midnight Sun is very psychodelic and good to switch off to

Peace,

Heather

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Benjaminhippy

I think your correct about the pharmaceuticals, your good health is not in their best interests!

Amitriptyline is prescribed for different things, I know a friend who’s been on it for years for nerve pain, they call it an antidepressant well it also had the opposite effect on this person. I also heard about an elderly lady who was put on it for sleep problems she ended up on another four medications because of the side-effects.

I was also prescribed gabapentin when newly diagnosed because my tremors, the tremors cleared up within a year so I asked when I would be coming off them? I was told that this medication should be taken for life, I stopped immediately and they never returned (this is 20 odd years later).

About four years after my diagnosis and a lot of pestering on my part I was put on Avonex, I believed all the hype about how it would reduce the severity of your attack by a third and the amount of attacks by a third. I know multiple sclerosis is different for everybody but the geniuses at the pharmaceutical companies were able to claim this. My years taking this drug were by far my worst time throughout my illness, I got very depressed (almost suicidal) and my illness went downhill very fast. I came off this drug as well.

I too started smoking weed recreationally at school, it’s the only drug I take ever since dropping Avonex in about 2000 and I feel a lot better for it. Although it could be coincidence my illness has been fairly stable since then.

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I have used cannabis before for the symptoms. As I still awaiting a full diagnosis and live in limbo land I am kind of forced to self medicate. It does help my spasms to be honest!

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Also…read Ben Goldacre. Big Vitamin is Big Pharma. Natural doesn’t = safe.

For all that muttering about Biotin, who knows what it could affect? I’m not closed-minded. I take LDN as well as a DMD. I just don’t know enough about Biotin to be sure that it won’t interact with other drugs.

As an example. There was a certain man who posted here from Australia, who pretended to have MS. He claimed that olive leaf was good for infections. Olive leaf will lower blood pressure very quickly. If you have hypotension, this could kill you.

Here’s my anecdotal example. I have hypertension. I take a sh*tload of meds to lower it. Even with 5 drugs it is 140/80. I can’t afford to exercise at that level, so I take an infusion of fresh olive leaf. 10 minutes later, it drops to 125/77.

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That good old ‘appeal to nature’ fallacy: natural = good.

It just doesn’t stand a moment’s scrutiny. Natural does not always equal good. Anthrax is natural. The raven standing by when a sheep is in labour so it can feast on the eyes of the newborn lamb is natural. The parasitic worm boring through the eye of the child sitting on a river bank in Africa is natural.

I have no time for the daft argument that weed=natural=good and so pharma drugs=unnatural=bad.

Alison

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Hear, hear!

Deadly nightshade is a plant, so it must be good for you - or at least safe, right? Oh…wait…the clue’s in the name.

Tina

x

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Cannabis users lose the ability to perceive themselves as others see them.

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Please do not get me wrong about what I’m about to say; I hate with a passion all drugs.

Illegal drugs are arguable the biggest problem facing mankind. When are we going to realize that prohibition does not work? We in the west; so called first World Countries must make sure the farmers of the Poppy or Coca Leaves earn legal money to support their families.

I’d like to widen the discussion because I have lost my one and only; lovely son whose drug addiction and eventual demise started with Marihuana that lead to Crack.

It’s a very hard decision but I think we should go like Portugal and de-criminalise every drug. Why are drugs so rife? Because pushers earn lots of money. The Police and HMC will not stop this trade although they do well; they will admit that.

Take away this by putting all drugs free under the NHS and you instantly stop 60% of people in jail stealing to fund their habit, drug barons making vast fortunes. Less people in Jail think of the money saved, we would even have room to incarcerate real criminals like motorists. Police would be able, and have the man-power to concentrate on real crime.

Our schools are becoming ideal places for pushers to ply their evil trade, take away their money making; I won’t say earning; trade and you will have no pushers.

Did you know it’s very rarely the drug that kills but the st it is cut with, and sometimes it is st.

A little added bonus, the NHS would be able to buy supplies from Peru or Afghanistan; the tribal leaders would soon realize it is more profitable to sell drugs legally. I believe it is assumed that 40% of money from Cocaine is estimated to go to Al Keida to fund terrorism?

The disaster lead by Bush and that puppy Blair in Afghanistan is waiting for our great troops to get out and The Taliban will reintroduce their outdated law again. Women will become second class citizens and schools will be outlawed

The greatest advantage though is that all drug users would be known and helped kicking the habit.

In Portugal it was thought that de-criminalising drugs would make it the drug capital of the world. What has it done in reality, reduce drug taking by 10% in a year.

We must start thinking outside the box and stop just thinking it’s wrong so we will ban it. This is not a self inflicted problem it is pure pier pressure, you must take a couple of Es to enjoy yourself all night, others do?

Society cannot prohibit much if anything, what happened with Alcohol prohibition in the USA? All it led to was the rise of the Mafia.

Reasons for de-criminalizing

  • 60% less in jail
  • Less Jails needed
  • Less staff
  • Drug Barons get no money
  • Police/HMC can concentrate on real crime
  • Less Police/HMC needed
  • Stop drugs being sold in schools
  • Drugs given to people would be clean
  • Addicts can be monitored and possible weaned off
  • Would be able to buy drugs from Afghanistan
  • If done correctly it could turn that campaign into a win

Reasons to not de-criminalise

  • It is not morally right

As far as things like ‘deadly night shade’ is concerned yes in that form it is ‘deadly’ probably. Everything revolves around the laws of science. Newton’s Law of motion is ‘every action has an equal and opposite reaction’. If you think a hot cup of tea actually cools you; X-rays can cause cancer, they are used also to treat cancer; Aspirin is used to bring temperature down but an overdose causes pyrexia.

To confirm please look at Dr Mosley’s Horizon program on Poisons; even water can be classed as deadly BBC Four - Pain, Pus and Poison: The Search for Modern Medicines, Poison

George

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I have a lot of sympathy with this view. It is great that some countries are relaxing their laws and therefore data on the consequences of that are building up. With such an emotive topic, the more hard data there are the better, although the risk of their being massaged unfairly by those hell-bent on one view or its opposite is ever-present.

It seems to me that there is a tendency in this country to think, wrongly, that a Government, by failing to ban something, is actively promoting it. That is one of the reasons that change in this area is so politically risky. You can see the DM headlines about even the most modest move towards decriminalisation easily enough! ‘Party X encouraging teens to become drug addicts!’ Etc.

But good luck to any political party brave enough to explore the options, at least. It’s about time.

Alison

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Good reply Alison; completely agree. Politically; well anyway really damned if you do; damned if you don’t.

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Going the way of the Dutch might be a good avenue to explore (same with legalising prostitution, but that’s a whole other discussion) but then a friend of mine, who is Dutch, says the US is putting pressure on The Netherlands to rescind its laws about cannabis…

My reaction to that was, “what’s it got to do with them?!” But really, whether something’s to do with someone or not tends not to signify, does it. Particularly when that someone is the most powerful country on the planet…as many seem to think power equates to a right to have a say in all matters.

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Mmm, another thought and raised temperatures topic.

Everyone has a right to their own feelings… but

what we MUST remember in this country is that cannabis IS illegal

and I know of people who have lost loved ones through taking illegal drugs…cannabis included.

poll

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