Hi All
I know that there is a lot of talk about vitamin D levels recently, so I have just had my checked and got my results today.
Vitamin D - 39.7
Hemoglobin - 11.8
Ferritin - 16
Another abnormal result was Eosinphil (white blood count) which was 7.2,
Can anyone advise what these mean and also how much vitamin D I need to take and how often to get this back up to an acceptable level. How long this will take?
Many Thanks
Helen
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39.7 is low. (I’m assuming that that is 39.7nmol/l.)
Also, that figure will be a total of vit D2 and vit D3 so your D3 level will be less than 39.7. (It’s only D3 that’s important.)
You should talk to your GP about what to take, but your GP may not be aware of the recommendations for MSers to aim for a D3 level of 150nmol/l which is much higher than the current NHS “normal” level so make sure you tell him/her.
If I were you, and my GP was being unhelpful, I would start on 5,000iu or 10,000iu a day and get my level tested again after 4 weeks. If it is improved, but not there yet, then continue. Get another test after 4 weeks. If there, reduce the dose to maintain your level. This is where it gets tricky - what maintenance level we need will vary. Maybe somewhere between 1-4,000iu.
Your ferritin and haemoglobin are a bit low which suggests (I think!) that you might be iron deficient. Again, your GP can advise.
The eosinphil count is low. According to a quick look on-line, this can happen if you take steroids - you had any recently? Can’t add any more than that though, sorry.
Sounds like you have an interesting GP appointment ahead!
Karen x
There is a chart at this link
That enables you to work out how many EXTRA iu of Vitamin D3 per KG of your current weight may be required to reach a 25(OH)D above 125nmol/l
It’s at 125nmol/l (50ng/ml) that Vitamin D is most effective as an anti-inflammatory agent and MS progression and disability is driven by inflammation. and the inflammatory response.
Allow 3~5 months at the higher daily vitamin D3 intake and then retest and adjust the daily dose again.
I agree with rizzo that if you are aiming for 150nmol/l it may be sensible to go straight for 10,000iu/daily and retest sooner than 3 months. 150 nmol/l gives you a bigger reserve if you fall ill or have an accident and your body uses up it’s vitamin D reserves dealing with a crisis. Below 100nmol/l the body only has a few days vitamin D and there is no spare Vitamin D3 available as it’s all being accounted for meeting your body’s daily needs.
Thanks for your replies.
I find it hard to work out, sorry must be my ms brain!. If I take 10,000 iu a day, how long should this take to get me to the 150nmol level ?
I had to pay private for my tests as my GP/MS Nurses said that they do not do vitamin D tests, can you believe it!
They have said that my Eosinphil are high and want to test me for allergies.
I know have a skin rash and the GP reckons its all related to the allergies and the low level of vit D.
Can low levels cause all problems ?
HELEN
X
Sorry, there’s no way of knowing how long it might take - it’s different for everyone. The fact that you are low in vitamin D should make your GP play ball though. It would surely be against the rules for him/her to ignore it?! You should really be prescribed supplements to at least get you to the NHS normal level and you can use the blood tests he refers you for to see how any extra supplements you are taking are working.
I guess the lab that did your tests uses a different unit for Eosinphil than the website I usually check these things on. Sorry!
Low vit D doesn’t cause skin rashes that I know of, but I’m not an expert. Not convinced that iron deficiency does either now I think about it. I guess your GP must have his reasons though?? Just had another look on-line and high Eosinphil can suggest an allergic condition (which would fit with the rash), but I’m not sure why this might cause the iron and D problems. Could they not be unrelated? Why is your GP linking them?
I’m not a medic though so I could easily be wrong to question your GP’s logic.
Sorry I can’t help much 
Kx
I was tested for Vitamin D levels and they came back at 23, I was told to take 2000mg a day. You can buy these at Holland and Barret in 1000mg tablets.
Joanne x
I myself had started taking Vit D3 capsules and then got tested recently. My Gp phoned me to back off taking them now as the level in me was 160+ Think I overdid it!
[quote=“VinceA”]
I myself had started taking Vit D3 capsules and then got tested recently. My Gp phoned me to back off taking them now as the level in me was 160+ Think I overdid it! [/quote]
Not really. 160 is a natural level that if we lived naked we would all naturally attain and maintain.
If you lived nearer the equator with a white skin it may even go above 200nmol/l as happens with life guards working at swimming pools.
If you had cancer then it would be a smart idea to keep your 25(OH)D levels around 200nmol/l as The Vitamin D receptor together with 1.25 dihdroxyvitamin d(calcitriol) suppress c MYC production which regulates the proliferation of cancer cells
[quote=“Joanne12”]
I was tested for Vitamin D levels and they came back at 23, I was told to take 2000mg a day. You can buy these at Holland and Barret in 1000mg tablets.
Joanne x [/quote] Unfortunately vitamin D is a FAT SOLUBLE vitamin and therefore it is better absorbed from a capsules where it is dissolved in oil rather than a solid tablet.
Vit D may be sold in IU (short for Internatial Units) or micrograms written as mcg there are 40 iu in 1 ug so 25ug = 1000iu
The amount of Vitamin D generally required to move from level to the next is set out in this chart
From which you can see to get from 25 to 125nmol/l usually requires at least 78 iu for each Kilogram you currently weigh.
So if you weigh 70 kg you and currently have a 25(OH)D around 25nmol/l you will probably require 70 x 78 = 5460iu daily to reach 150nmol/l would require 70 x 109 =7630 iu daily more.
5000iu vitamin D3 Oil based capsules are readily available online from BIGVITS or AMAZON UK from around £10 including postage for 360 nearly a years supply at 5000iu/daily
If you work out the ideal amount for your weight to achieve the required rise in 25(OH)D then multiply that amount by 7 to work out how many iu required each week
Then divide by 5000 to see how many capsules required. Then try to spread this number out equally through the week.
Because the actual presence of Vitamin D in the digestive track affects the way you gut microbiome operates it’s better to have regular daily intakes rather than once a week or once a fortnight megadoses.
If I take 10,000 iu a day, how long should this take to get me to the 150nmol level ?
About 3 months is normal.
I had to pay private for my tests as my GP/MS Nurses said that they do not do vitamin D tests, can you believe it?
That is very unfair for MS folks There is enough information available for doctors to know that the prognosis for MS patients is better with higher 25(OH)D levels. CityAssays do Blood Spot tests for £25 each by post or £20 if you bulk buy 10 and share surplus with other MSers or family/friends. Your doctor should also be able to prescribe Dekristol vitamin D3 20,000 IU which you should be able to space out so you get sufficient over the week to raise 25(OH)D to between 125~150nmol/l.
Can low levels cause all problems ?
Every cell in your body has a vitamin D receptor so it’s true to say that vitamin D deficiency adversely affects EVERY CELL in your body
Absorption of Vit D3 can’t really be worked out from a chart. It is dependent on so many individual factors.
Here in Australia where a lot of recent research is being carried out into Vit D3 and MS it is suggested that the maximum dose should be 4000iu regardless of how low your startiing levels are. It may take a bit longer to reach the ideal of 125nmol/L but to take a high dose such as 10,000iu has been associated with a greater risk of falls and fractures which is why the recomended dose for MS has been down graded to 4000iu.
B
Absorption of Vit D3 can’t really be worked out from a chart. It is dependent on so many individual factors.
One of the factors is the size of the body which is absorping the vitamin D. Larger bodies have a bigger volune therefore the idea perpetuated that there is a one size fits all amount of vitamin D required by everyone is ludicrous nonsense.
Here in Australia where a lot of recent research is being carried out into Vit D3 and MS it is suggested that the maximum dose should be 4000iu regardless of how low your startiing levels are.
There are times when the lack of common sense and logical thinking among health proffesionals concerns me greatly. Human skin when exposed to UVB creates 10,000iu~20,000iu of exactly the same cholecalciferol found in vitamin D supplements.
We wouldn’t have survived the evolutionary process if it was not working for our benefit.
What should happen naturally in the human body should be our guide rather than the ideas of those health professionals who have clearly lost touch with reality.
It may take a bit longer to reach the ideal of 125nmol/L but to take a high dose such as 10,000iu has been associated with a greater risk of falls and fractures which is why the recomended dose for MS has been down graded to 4000iu.
Given the lack of sunshine in the UK such a recommendation here would lead to greater harm for everyone with MS.
Unfortunately many people don’t eat their greens and may lack adequate amounts of Vitamin K in their diets.
If you want to protect your bones and benefit from the NATURAL amount of Vitamin D3 human bodies evolved to work best with it may be worth your while reading this book.
“Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life”
Ted, you do sound like you know what you are talking about but as the man who wrote
'It’s the doctors promoting low fat diets who are responsible for the increase in skin cancers. ’
http://www.mssociety.org.uk/forum/everyday-living/vitamin-d-word-warning
I have my reservations
"'It’s the doctors promoting low fat diets who are responsible for the increase in skin cancers. ’
http://www.mssociety.org.uk/forum/everyday-living/vitamin-d-word-warning
I have my reservations"
Obviously you have failed to read or understand the evidence provided in that previous thread
There is no way I can help people who aren’t prepared either to look at the evidence or choose not to act rationally or logically.
I’m simply suggesting the natural levels of omega 3 and Vitamin D human bodies evolved to work best with should be taken as our guide now our current lifestyles prevent daylong full body exposure to sunlight.
Post-peer review (publisher’s document) (pdf) Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids: photoprotective macronutrients
“Evidence suggests that LC n-3 PUFA, particularly EPA, are capable of reducing UV-induced inflammation in human skin, in addition to potentially offering protection against photoimmunosuppression, photocarcinogenesis, photoageing and photosensitivity disorders. Ultimately, combined dietary and standard topical sunscreen measures may optimise human skin protection from sunlight. The photoprotective properties of SC n-3 PUFA are less explored but may hold potential for skin protection.”
People who eat predominantly traditional fats like butter and coconut oil usually have nice skin. These fats are high in saturated fat and low in omega-6 linoleic acid, while pro-inflammatory industrial vegetable oils like corn and soy oil contain a lot of it.
If you alter the balance of omega 3 to omega 6 and change the skin’s balance from anti-inflammatory to pro-inflammatory what do you think will happen when you heat that skin up?
Would you not consider it reckless if, knowing a house was in the path of a bushfire, the owner soaked it in petrol rather than an anti inflammatory agent.?
Why do you doubt the vilification of saturated fats has resulted in higher obesity and cancer incidence?
Those here who have raised their omega 3 levels and reduced omega 6 intake will be aware of the fact it improves the time we can spend in the sun or under UVB without our skin burning. No one should ever get sunburnt or allow anyone in their company to get sunburnt.
Same with vitamin D If you don’t or won’t get your 25(OH)D up to the level 125nmol/l = 50ng/ml you won’t / can’t maximise it’s anti-inflammatory potential.
Thanks Ted for all your input. l do not have anything like the knowledge you have of this subject - but from past experience l can say l agree with you. l have mentioned before on here - about a friend diagnosed with inoperable prostate cancer - who decided to go to USA for treatment not available here in UK. The oncologist he saw started him on 60.000ius of vitd3 before even considering operating on him. Once his levels were high he then did have the operation that saved his life. Now about 7yrs later he is enjoying life and has still got the ‘all clear’. And he still takes a high dose vitd3. His oncologists told him that lack, of exposure to sunlight [sensibly], and vitamind3 and diets not containing saturated fats was causing a higher rate of cancers including skin cancer.
ln books that l have read about vitamin d3 - lt is a proven fact that 17 types of cancer are linked to vitamin d3 deficiency.
l am a fan of the Barry Groves books on the hunter gatherer eating regime where he shows how ‘healthy eating’ is making us ill.
His ‘diet’ is what Dr Terry Wahls advocates - except he has written about it 40yrs before. Lots of meat/fish/fat/ and greens - and no complex carbs. l was introduced to his books from someone on this forum and l now have his Eat Fat Get Thin - and Natural Health & Weight Loss - and Trick and Treat.
l expect you have noticed how many references to vitd there are now in television adverts. More and more food companies are adding it to their products.
l did say - about three years ago - that we should all have got together to buy ‘shares’ in vitd3. Just hope the price does not jump too high.
To to I’ve recently read some compelling articles and stories about people who have gone back to the hunter gather diet and who before had very high cholesterol levels and blood tests following 2 months on the diet which involves eliminating all processed foods low fat products and eating large quantities of berries certain fruits and vegetables , fish and red meat , unfortunately no grains , saw their cholesterol drop significantly for the first time in years. Dr Terry Wahls saw her secondary progressive ms improve from being in a wheelchair to being able to walk and cycle to work. She has no invested financial interest. It makes interesting reading and while I know that many of us who have a progressive form of the disease often are desperate to try anything I do think we need to open our eyes.
OK, let’s just look ate the “evidence” in just that one link. It takes you to WND.
WND was formerly WorldNetDaily - a website for the American far right.
Yes, I did say far right, and pro-gun, and pro conspiracy theories, and pro Regan, and anti Obama (and how the Federal Government would want to keep everyone sick AND want to extend Medicaid at the same time is an amazing leap of logic).
WND has even suggested that the Sand Hook School shooting was staged by the administrationto bias the population in favour of gun control:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/12/21/wnd-columnist-alleges-sandy-hook-shooting-was-s/191946
So there is the background to one piece of “evidence”. Make up your own minds.
Geoff
OMG!!! The replies on the WND site are hysterical (or would be if they weren’t actually serious) And given they are serious it is down right terrifying. This is a site for far right extremism indeed.
I then went further and started reading some of the other articles… And now I feel sick
Ted, are these the sort of beliefs you hold or are you simply cherry picking from absolutely anywhere to grab what you can to support your theories? If I ever did have any respect for your ideas I have lost it now…
Thanks for pointing it out, Geoff
B
I have got to admire your style Ted, you post nonsense, accuse me of not understanding it and then post more nonsense
Hi Ted,
I agree that a diet low in saturated fats can reduce absorption of VitaminD3. I’m not a fan of low-fat diets - in my case. I eat a similar diet to Frances (Campion) and a lot of Tuscan kale greens.
This makes my pain levels bearable and also, as my endocrinologist has advised, keeps my carbohydrate intake down, as thanks to dodgy genes, I have a very high risk of type 2 diabetes.
However, you could quote from more ‘palatable’ sources. Barry Groves, Dr Briffa, Terry Wahls, anyone except the rantings of a load of right-wing nutters.
Yours, sincerely,
La Preguiceira
x