I went to the MS Research Day, hosted by Queen Mary, University of London, in early February, and we were advised to take plenty of Vitamin D. As there’s no disadvantage to doing this, I started taking 5000IU each day in handy gelatin capsule form. I didn’t expect anything from it, just regarded it as A Good Thing To Do. But I have begun to notice that I suffer less fatigue since I started with the capsules. I don’t have so many of those ‘totally knackered can’t do anything’ days.
Anyone else taking high dosages of Vitamin D? Anyone noticed any effects?
Yes i take 4000lu per day but i’m waiting on my latest vit d results to see if i need more.
In october my gp said my vit d was 14 and to go and get some high strengh vit d tabs from the chemist as the ones he can prescribe would’nt be strong enough. so then i was taking one a day. when i got told in jan my dx, my neuro told me to take more. my ms nurse in feb said she wanted the test done again and she did’nt understand why i had’nt had vit d jabs as it was so low. When i went for the blood test, the nurse could’nt do it, so i had to go to my drs, they could’nt get me in till the other day
showing how people vary in their 25(OH)D response to different daily Vitamin D3 intakes by around 250 nmol/l (100ng/ml)
It’s impossible to predict how your body will respond to any vitamin D3 dosing regime.
The only way to solve the problem is to get 25(OH)D tested.
Birmingham NHS path lab are a good source as because they are a specialist Vitamin D testing lab their results are consistent.
and then use the amount per KG specified in the second Grassrootshealth chart. Retest after 3~5 months and adjust intake if you haven’t reached the NATURAL level for humans 125nmol/l
Boots Pharmaceuticals Vitamin D 25 ug tablets - 180 tablets £8.99 (25 ug = 1000iu)
Tablets are sometimes less well absorbed than gel capsules where the vitamin D is carried in oil. Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin and so taking it in oil gives it an advantage. Taking your vitamin D in the morning with a cooked breakfast (fat) or with any meal would improve absorption.
Even on Special Offer 3 for 2 Boots work out more expensive than from Amazon where you should be able to find a years supply of 5000iu for around £11.
Hi Chris, on neuro advice, I started the 5000 iu daily (like you I got Healthy Options but on Amazon) just over a week ago. Too early to notice any difference.
I was tested by GP and found to be 79 nmol/L which is at lower end of ‘optimal’ for NHS but apparently these figures are way out of date.
Glad it has made a difference to your fatigue. Fingers crossed I find the same!
I have also read a lot on internet that some people lose weight as lack of Vit D3 can apparently lead to weight gain… but not sure if this is based on proper research or just myth.
In order to convert the circulating form of Vitamin D3 (CALCIDIOL) to the active hormonal form CALCITRIOL there needs to be adequate amounts of magnesium available. People with hypomagnamesia (magnesium deficiency) are not able to benefit from vitamin D until the magnesium deficiency is corrected. There is a short video here explaining how many of us will be magnesium deficient. I find 100mg magnesium chelate with each meal and 100mg magnesium taurate at night helps me.
Another factor that may affect the impact of vitamin D3 action is OMEGA 3 level. Both the EPA and DHA forms of omega 3 (more so DHA) act as nutritional ligands (they bind with) the Vitamin D Receptor so helping to regulate CALCITRIOL. Omega 3 also have anti-inflammatory actions of their own so as every cell in your body uses both omega 3 and vitamin D3 it’s impossible to decide if the impact is through the activity of omega 3 acting as omega 3 or it’s action via upregulation of the active form of vitamin D3. However for anyone experiencing pain or chronic inflammation it’s worth knowing that Vitamin D is most effective as an anti-inflammatory agent when 25(OH)D level is kept at or above 125nmol/l (50ng/ml)
Human DNA evolved in East Africa where from dawn to dusk human skin produces 10,000~20,000iu daily. and 25(OH)D levels in those humans still living as human DNA evolved (near naked outdoor lives) maintain 25(OH)D equilibrium at 115nmol/l (46ng/ml) with levels naturally rising during pregnancy and lactation and also with ageing.
It follows the daily amounts of Vitamin D3 required to attain and maintain a NATURAL 25(OH)D level are not HIGH but THE EFFECTIVE or ADEQUATE intakes.
Any daily D3 intake amount that produces a 25(OH)D below 114nmol/l is insufficient if you think that evolution should be our guide. None of us would take seriously a garage service person who suggested we ran our cars with levels at a quarter or a third of the makers original specification.
I think we should regard with the utmost caution any and every health professional who suggests a 25(OH)D 50% below that naturally attained and maintained by humans living as human DNA evolved is adequate. They make their money and careers out of sick people, not those who remain healthy.
[quote=“Snow Leopard”] Very interesting Ted… but how do we know if we need magnesium? Is it safe just to take it as supplement without knowing what your levels are? Pat x [/quote] Because Magnesium is required to counterbalance the action of calcium it depends partly on your calcium intake and your Vitamin D3 status. Higher vitamin D levels enable higher calcium absorption and thus may expose an underlying magnesium insufficiency.
Magnesium Update Formula to Calculate Magnesium Daily Requirement- ##### 5 to 10 milligrams per day per kilo of ideal body weight or 2.5 to 4.5 milligrams per day per pound of ideal body weight.
Example: 70 kilos or 150 pounds= 350 mg. to 700 mg. daily.
In the UK/EU we have a calcium recommended daily intake of 800mg
If you look at these amounts you see the magnesium is less than half the calcium but this is based on a misinterpretation of the evidence. We are tending to increase the amount of calcium available in our diets/supplements/food fortification while not ensuring adequate amounts of magnesium are available to counterbalance that calcium.
It’s not that difficult to put a typical weeks diet through a magnesium calculator and work out if your average intake is at the upper end of Krispin’s recommendations. Mostly if you gradually increase magnesium by taking 100mg with a meal for 1 week then with 2 meals, then 3 meals then another at bedtime so you are adding 400mg together with the amount of magnesium in your diet you will be fine. If you find you start getting diarrhoea then that is you level of bowel tolerance and you need to back down a bit until your stools are fine.
Hi chris like pat I take 5000iu healthy options from amazon,when at newly dx day people said might be worth try,haven’t had vitamin d test yet but no harm in trying taking them for about 1yr now still get fatigue and tired but that maybe if do too much,so like everything you have to pace yourself and not overdo things be well Steve
[quote=“nathan”] Hi chris like pat I take 5000iu healthy options from amazon,when at newly dx day people said might be worth try,haven’t had vitamin d test yet but no harm in trying taking them for about 1yr now still get fatigue and tired but that maybe if do too much,so like everything you have to pace yourself and not overdo things be well Steve [/quote] It also maybe that you are not taking sufficient Vitamin D3 to reach the level at which Vitamin D is most effective.
Without testing you simply don’t know and for the £25 Cityassays (link in previous post in this thread) charge it’s worth knowing if you have achieved a level around 125nmol/l or above.If you haven’t you may well find that raising 25(OH)D to that level with a bit more Vitamin D3 not only helps with energy levels it may also reduce flares and slow disease progression, particularly if you also ensure adquate magnesium and omega 3 are available.
[quote=“Lisa ann 67”] I take the vit d tabs in the morning with 2 fish oil tabs, is that ok? [/quote] Generally speaking people in the UK require 1000iu/daily for each 25lbs weight so 4000iu (4 x 1000iu = 25mcg = 25ug) may be sufficient for someone weighing 100lbs or the average weight of someone about 12 or 13
If you got 25(OH)D tested you’d know if it was working sufficiently well to get 25(OH)D to or above 125nmol/l. It would be much better than just guessing.
Magnesium citrate is quite a good idea as you can buy it in a powder (Big Vits used to do it) so adding it to a drink is fine. I’m not convinced that drinking juice through the day is very good for you or your teeth. Lots of fructose (sugar) and quite a bit of acid and not much fibre. I’d rather you ate whole fruit and drank plain water with magnesium citrate or if you’ve a soda-stream this
Some people may find that magnesium citrate works well as a laxative (which implies the magnesium isn’t well absorbed) but perhaps drinking it through the day gets round that potential problem (which may though be a benefit to any constipated readers)
Like quite a few of you I’ve been taking the Healthy Origins one-per-day 5,000IU D3, £8.99 for a years supply from amazon (and dead easy to swallow!), for the past few months. Two things I have noticed;
I appear to be losing weight, despite my diet and exercise regime staying pretty static. Nothing major, but have lost about 4 pounds since Jan without any extra effort.
Symptoms pretty much the same, but hardly any fatigue. The only time I feel knackered is when I haven’t had enough sleep (usually due to muscle spasms and twitching, unsurprisingly!) or have over-done it at the gym.
[quote=“Clucker Pigeon”] Like quite a few of you I’ve been taking the Healthy Origins one-per-day 5,000IU D3, £8.99 for a years supply from amazon (and dead easy to swallow!), for the past few months. [/quote] Price has gone up and now around £11.05
[quote=“Clucker Pigeon”] 1) I appear to be losing weight, despite my diet and exercise regime staying pretty static. Nothing major, but have lost about 4 pounds since Jan without any extra effort. [/quote] It’s possible increasing Vitamin D intake may improve insulin sensitivity and thus influence fat storage or fat buring and may alter energy expenditure.
Calcium tends to tense nerves and muscle fibres and magnesium calms nerves and relaxes muscle fibres. Possibly the muscle spasms and twitching are indicators of magnesium shortage.
I suspect 5000iu is not sufficient to get your 25(OH)D above 100nmol/l and you’d see a greater improvement if you increased the amount you take. Consider taking 3 x 5000iu every 2 days so you average 7500iu daily.
Great info. Just placed my order for magnesium and high strength vit d. Don’t forget, your liver processes vit d. If you have any liver issue, consult your doc or gastroenterologist first. Mine says no more than 6000 units for me, max.
Presumably that doesn’t include the vitamin D3 that would be naturally formed near the surface of your skin as a result of UVB on the 7 dehydrocholesterol molecules. It would be worth testing 25(OH)D to be sure 6000iu is sufficient for you to keep 25(OH)D at /above the 125nmol/l level at which it’s most effective as an anti~inflammatory agent and making up the difference with UVB from a UVB rich tanning lamp given the dearth of UK sunshine the last few summers.
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Naturally FULL BODY UVB exposure on people with reasonably natural cholesterol levels (not artificially lowered with statins or plant sterols) will produce between10,000~20,000iu. If you rely on sunlight then be aware the angle of the sunlight is such that UVB only reaches ground level when your shadow is less than twice your height. and increases in 25(OH)D levels are higher when shadow length is = to or less than your standing height. UVA exposure (sunlight through glass or plastic or car/lorry/bus windows blocks UVB) processed the newly made vitamin D3 into suprasterols the body doesn’t use so any vitamin d remaining unabsorbed near the skin surface will be degraded so it’s impossible to get Vitamin d toxicity from sun/uvb exposure.
However it would be nice to see and feel some warm sunlight for a change.
There are benefits from sunlight apart from just Vitamin D3
There is also the action of bright sunlight through the eyes resetting circadian rhythm and thus improving the production of melatonin from dusk to dawn.
No it doesn’t Ted, according to my consultant. I have d3 with my calcium tablets, but that’s it. I’m not allowed in the sun due to some other drugs I am on for another condition. It’s only in recent months i have been allowed a paracetamol, gabapentin etc. (just stopped now), so i have to check with the consultant before doing anything & have blood tests etc. I was so pleased to be given the green light for such levels of vit d. I am sure caution must be required by anyone else who has had a liver issue. I am fortunate as my consultant has multidisciplinary & with a keen interest in MS, so communicates with my neuro freely. My poor GP just writes the prescriptions!