Starting Tysabri - scared :(

As the title says I am due to start Tysabri the week after next. Just off the phone from my ms nurse specialist and she says my bloods have tested positive for the JC Virus. I’m so confused - she says that would mean that I can only go on Tysabri for 2 years. My question is - I’m fine at the moment,( I had an mri in October that showed 2 new lesions but I’m lucky that they dont seem to be affecting me greatly) Should I wait to start Tysabri until I really need it - am i ‘wasting’ the 2 years on it now? I know nobody can tell what way I will be tomorrow but its so hard to weigh up the scary odds right now when i’m physically well. I had decided that as rebif wasnt suiting me and my neuro said my type of lesions responded best to Tysabri that I needed to be on something to safeguard the future but the more I speak to the ms nurse the more scared I get. I also mentioned that I have loads of moles (more than 20) and have read of an increased rate of melanoma, I’m adopted so dont know my family history. My neuro said he didnt think there was an increased risk with Tysabri.

I want to safeguard my future for both myself and my 2 kids but i’m so scared as to what I could be opening myself up to on tysabri. At the moment I’m booked for my 1st infusion the week after next but my head is wrecked!

What a tricky situation

So sorry that I can’t advise - this is way out of my own experience. I can quote you all the data, but that doesn’t really help much I don’t think.

There is a new drug coming through trials really fast and looking really promising: BG-12. Perhaps you could have Tysabri now and then go on that? It’s supposed to be available from 2013 (which probably means 2014!).

What does your neuro think? Is it for definite that you’d have to come off Tysabri after 2 years? (Seems like a very heavy precaution!)

Good luck with the decision.

Karen x

Hi Karen

Thanks for replying - it was the ms nurse today that said they would take me off it after 2 years. I suppose I’ve been stung before with professional ‘advice’. The rebif rep lied about stats and ignored my side effects to keep me on the meds when they clearly were’nt suiting me giving me deep mistrust of the profession. My neuro has lectured about tysabri so i’m not sure if theres a conflict of interest there as well - i’m basically very concious of the fact that these professions need funding and can therefore be swayed into recommending products. I feel this is a decision I have to make myself but am only going around in circles!

Hi

From memory when I last spoke to MS nurse about Tysabri she said they were develo[ping a blood test which looked for the possible risk of developing the brain infection (very scientifically put) and that following that test they would decide on suitability and how long you could recieve the treatment for. I think that there is also still a maximum number of years you can have it too. 10 years if you are at a low risk - happy to be corrected by anyone better informed.

I will be looking at Tysabri after me and my husband have had a second baby (DMDs did not work for at all and have highly active rrms). Personally I would listen more to what the Specialist advises, not meaning to downgrade the MS nurse or what they do, but it will be on his say so how long you reciev them for not the Nurse but the nurse will inform you of all the worst side effects - you need to know those to make an informed decision.
From personal experience I find my MS nurse very helpful and informative, however it seems a few of them seem to concern/confuse/worry people more than anything. Write down your questions and ask your specialist thats what I normally do. I think the nurses are great, dont get me wrong, but they arent there to diagnose on disease progression or prescribe treatment. This is a big decision any medication that have side effects like Tysabri is.

Write down your fears and questions and see your consultant to discuss. The nurse may be able to answer some or all of them but if you are not happy it is your right to speak to a specialist in the field. I rarely see my specialist as I see the nurse all the time. In actual fact the last time I saw him he said “goodness its been a long time, what do you want?” obviously in the nicest way possible, but my employers wanted me to see him due to the frequency of relapses. Hmmmm they do understand really Im sure??? Anyway when it comes to opting for this treatment I shall see him to discuss. As he advised me at the time… Have your kids quickly and get on the drug!!!

Sorry Ive really gone on. Sorry for the long response but I hope it sort of gives some help? Good luck with whatever you decide, because only you can!! Also look into Low dose Naltrexone. I know it isnt clinically proven, but I know it helped me and certainly noticed it did when I came off it three months ago.

F

Hiya

LDN isnt available in southern Ireland so I havent researched it at all. I did have the blood test to decypher my risk level for Tysabri - unfortunately, the results came back positive for the JC Virus today which is why I can only have it for 2 years. I thought I had my decision made and was starting regardless of the result but now i’m not so sure. Like you, I put off treatment to have my second child 4 years ago, started rebif then and 14 months later had to stop as it really didnt suit me. My neuro tends to go round in circles when you talk to him, you have a list of questions, ask the 1st 1 or 2 and then he waffles for ages. He did say my type of lesions respond best to tysabri - soo confused. My best friend died of cancer 12 weeks ago so I know my thought process is a bit mixed up at the mo anyway

Hey SG

I have been on Tysabri for 2.5 years and I don’t know if I carry the JCV or not. TBQH I really don’t care due to how it has stabilised the MS! I cannot understand why your MS nurse has said you can only be on it for 2 years as the risk of developing PML gies down to 1 in 350 or 0.3% so the risk of actually developing PML is still very remote.

After I had been on Tysabri for 2 years I had to sign another consent form accepting the risks of PML. I have a feeling that you MS nurse is either getting herself in a muddle or talking out of certain orifices! If you chose to carry on with Tysabri after the two years is up then that choice is YOURS NOT the MS nurses or the neurologists. I for one am certainly NOT going to stop taking it as I have finished an Access to Health Studies course and have been invited to interview for a part time Occupational Therapy degree at my local university. THis would not have been possible buyt for the Tysabri. If your HCP’s try to take you off this after 2 years I would tell 'em to shove it were the sun don’t shine and if they are insistent then fight them. THe risk of PML does seem to decrease after year 3 as well!

Andy

Hi

Well done you Andy and every luck for future success. Is nice to hear a positive outcome and good luck with becoming an OT.
You make a really good point about it being extremely unlikely that you will ever develop PMS and I didnt know the risk went down after 3 years, I thought it went up. I know that when I was thinking about it for the future I did say but the chances of developing MS are really unlikely but I managed to get that.

I know how you feel Satgirl. I worry about this for the future and probably more so because we have kids. I know I always think of worst case. I do feel though after reflection that I also have to weigh up what potentially the benefits would be and how that will benefit my family. Will I be able to work for more years/will I be able to do more because I wouldnt have as many relapses and also slow disease progression. I know my worst fear is getting to that worst point and having to have others care for me. Im a stubborn old c*w and cant imagine I would let it happen but we all know with MS much of it is out of your control. You have to be happy and confident with your choice but I think you will always have that seed if doubt!?
RE: LDN you can order it on private prescription and I know there are some online GP’s that you can get it through, you just need it in writing that you have MS from your consultants. Im not sure if they write these for Southern Ireland but it might be worth a look? It costs £30 privately here, not sure what that is in Euros but hopefully it is affordable and the liquid is even cheaper than than privately. You could always email Dicksons chemist (based in Glasgow) and see if they could advise.?

Good luck and PM me if you ever want to talk further, would love to swap stories about the kids and how you coped with your MS.

F

I say, if you are well, why risk PML?

My specialist told me - you should be on medication.

I replied - that’s what you tld me last time and I have been on Copaxone for the past 6 months.

He said - Ok, How is that working for you?

I said - Well, I still have weakness, sensory and bowel problems but I walk a mile in 15 minutes and I feel quite alright overall…

He said (looking at my latest MRI) - I think you should be on Tysebri, it gets the best results for your type of lesions…

I said - Well that may be so, but I am not risking PML until I feel like I am ready to risk PML - you know what I’m saying…

I have very little respect for the guy. I do my own research and make my own decisions my advice is do the same and if you really want to help yourself read up on diet, vitamin D3 and exercise.

WHOA!!!

If someone has highly active / aggressive RRMS, then diet, LDN, exercise, etc might play around the edges, but it is NOT going to do very much to stop relapses.

Any and all of them might be a great extra thing to do, but anyone who relies on them entirely is about as far up the river (De)Nial as is possible!

Neuros do not get backhanders in the UK. Research funding does not depend on how many people take what meds. On the whole I honestly reckon that neuros don’t lose any sleep whatsoever over us - they tell us what they think is for the best, then they move onto the next patient. We are not people; we are cases. If we choose to do something stupid (i.e. go against their recommendations), then they probably spend about 10 seconds shaking their head and then shuffle the next medical file to the top, forgetting all about us in the process. They have no axes to grind - they just give us their opinion. What we choose to do with that is entirely up to us.

Satgirl: what are your options? I guess Rebif is a no go. What about Copaxone? If you go on Tysabri now and they make you come off in 2 years, what is next? If you don’t go on Tysabri now, will your neuro guarantee that you will be allowed to go on it in the future? Please don’t complicate this very difficult decision with side issues like diet, LDN, etc. - get the DMD sorted first.

Karen x

Satgrl wrote that she was Generally fine at the moment. Tysabri is too risky a treatment for people who are fine. I can’t believe ms specialists (like hers or mine) offer us that very toxic treatment that as you said rizzo meant for people with very active ms. Too often I feel my ms specialist is treating my MRI scan and not me. And don’t even get me started on his connections with the pharmaceutical companies.… In my personal opinion an ms specialist who doesn’t mention diet or stress management during consultation is NOT an ms specialist. It’s like in the years past pregnant women smoked and drank alcohol and their doctors told them - oh it’s fine don’t you worry about that… Come on…

And Karen, diet is by no means an extra. It is the most basic requirement for staying healthy. Be it with ms or without. And success stories you hear about, people (like me) who are doing very well on the diet are very real. Keeping to the diet and exercising regularly is not the easy chice - quite the opposite - it is very difficult. You are wrong if you think I am taking the easy way out by going against my consultant’s advice to take Tysabri. The diffificalt thing is to say No to Tysebri. I think it’s much easier to get a monthly infusion than to exersise dayly and keep to a strict diet. I resent you telling me I’m in denial. I think you are in denial for thinking Tysebri is a wonder drug and you consultant knows what’s best for you and isn’t confusing you with his previous patient. And FYI I know for a fact consultants in the uk get gifts from pharmasutical companies. It is never cash of course but things like a long weekend somewhere right after a conference or an upgrade to business class or other things like that…

Hi Satgirl,

I don’t know where your MS nurse got her information about coming of Tysabri after 2 years (unless its different in southern Ireland) but I know of one lady from southern Ireland how’s on it over 2 years I’m on it 3 years past in August and its the best thing since sliced bread for me, after 2 years I had to sign a consend form to say I’m happy to stay on Tysabri having to stop it after 2 years would be my worst nightmare and as Andy said your chances of getting PML improve after 3 years.

I don’t have any kids and I remember someone saying to me that if I did I wouldn’t be taking Tysabri but it was alright them saying that but the way my MS was if I’d have had kids what kind of life would they’ve had with a father like me I couldn’t even care for myself my food had to be cut up for me I needed help getting washed and dressed that was no life for me never mind my kids,

I know people who are on it much longer and there even JC positive I don’t know myself If I am or not I just don’t want to know, Tysabri has giving me my live back from being in a wheelchair unable to walk and only having the use of my left arm killer fatigue and very depressed relapsing every 4 or 5 weeks. and if I could have 6 months like this I’d be happy I got a chance to live my life again and believe me getting up every morning having a shower getting dressed and making myself breakfast puts a smile on my face

I’m walking going to the gym very fit and healthy and happy never having a relapse in that time I enjoy life again and no fatigue infact more energy then I’ve ever had.

Even my MRI’s have improved a lot since starting Tysabri and my MS is now stable.

I’m from N.Ireland myself

Mark x

P.s If your on facebook the is a page for people on Tysabri or thinking about starting Its only for people in the UK and Ireland north and south its very good if you just search on facebook for;

UK Tysabri users (Natalizumab) you should find it and its a closed group no one only members will see your posts or even know your a member.

Exercise and diet may well help with MS but it doesn’t perform the same function as the DMDs and in particular Tysabri.

I agree with Rizzzo.

I don’t think your advice to Satgirl is either helpful or constructive, it muddies the waters, diet and exercise are not an alternative to Tysabri. I believe you have posted this post with the best of intentions but you really aren’t helping Satgirl in this difficult situation.

Satgirl, I am sorry I have no advice to offer you but would like to wish you the very best of luck in whatever you decide.

guys thank you all so much for taking the time to answer me - this website and forum has helped me so much since I was diagnosed 6 years ago. Markolad i’m so glad tysabri has made such a difference to your life, these are the amazing stories i keep hearing about it. I do believe that in cases like yours weighing up the risks & benefits made the decision a much clearer one. I sincerely hope you continue to do well, thank you for sharing your experience.

I agree totally that diet and exercise have an overall benefit on a persons quality of life, they can only help and each persons life choices are their own. I dont like medication, never have. Not because i’m sort of health freak - badly need to get started on the new year diet (make that the new year diet of 2006 :slight_smile: ) I just dont like the effect they have on my body and mind, I have no tolerance for them.

I have an appointment with my neuro in April, I think I am going to wait until then to make a decision and I’m clearly able to make one right now. Today is my friends birthday so going to her grave and will spend the day thinking of her and not tysabri.

Again, thank you all so much - you have no idea how much I appreciate your advice.

I am a fan of a healthy diet and of regular exercise. As you say, they are basic requirements for staying healthy. However, they will not stop relapses in someone with aggressive RRMS. To believe otherwise is denial. Whether or not that applies to you I cannot (and did not) say, but I doubt it - given that you said that you are on Copaxone.

I did not make any reference to you in my post at all. I also did not make any reference to your choice to say no to Tysabri. I also did not say anything about “easy options” with regard to either Tysabri or to diet and exercise. I did not say that Tysabri was a wonder drug. I did not say that neuros are to be trusted. I did not say that neuros are always right. In fact, I did not say anything that you seem to be accusing me of!

Incidentally, if consultants are all on the take for fancy holidays and upgrades, how come my neuro won’t give me Tysabri? How come many people can’t even get onto the injectables? The UK has one of the lowest DMD prescription rates in the world - why aren’t they being doled out like sweeties if the neuros significantly benefit from prescribing them?

A couple of final things.

Free flights, extended stays at hotels, bottles of wine, tickets to events, free meals, perfume, flowers,…: What industry doesn’t have these?!

More importantly, RRMS is called RRMS for a reason. People with RRMS have remissions. Some of those people have remissions in which they feel very well. This does not stay that way for the majority though because more relapses means more damage which means poorer recovery and an increasing amount of permanent symptoms and disability. People with aggressive RRMS have more relapses and/or more severe relapses. The damage accumulates quicker. The disability accumulates quicker. Feeling “generally fine” now is no guarantee that feeling generally awful isn’t right around the corner. As my neuro told me (when I told him that I was doing well), “Let’s keep it that way!”

I’m not on Tysabri and probably won’t ever qualify, thank goodness. I think it’s an excellent drug, but I’m glad that the MS isn’t aggressive enough to need it.

However, “Come on?” How on earth is a neurologist who is treating MS, Alzheimers, Parkinson’s, epilepsy, dementia, brain tumours, migraines, going to take the time to give someone advice on diet? Most can’t agree on diet in the first place and anyone who has studied the various dietary approaches, knows that they can take quite opposing views - Paleo versus Swank for example.

Diet and stress control is up to us. We are the patients and we should know our own bodies, but then, we don’t find out what works for us or not until we try.

I can’t eat gluten. I can’t eat oats and I can’t eat pulses and it took years for me to realise that this was the way to find a better quality of life. This doesn’t chime well with the Swank diet and yet, people do well on it. I’d be in agony within a week. Diet is very, very complicated.

Diet changed my MS. I was very ill and unable to walk more than a few metres and so I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I went a bit over the top and spent 5 months eating a raw food diet. It did the trick, but I wasn’t happy on it. In fact, it took me about 2 years to be able to eat salad again. However, I felt great. My neuro was amazed, but quite pleased as he was about to prescribe Modafinal and was very relieved that he wouldn’t have to apply for funding.

I wasn’t going to stop taking beta-interferon though. No way. It had worked really well since 2000 and still does. My last relapse was when I had run out of it, after moving to Spain. I’m back on it now and it’s been 3 relapse-free years. That’s years where I can exercise and get on with life, instead of being constantly ill.

MS is complicated to treat and most people don’t know how to find out if a diet will help their symptoms or not. I know because I’d had loads of blood tests when I lived in Asia.

As for neuros getting perks or upgrades to conferences. Well, I know our neuro works really hard. He’d be delighted to get an upgrade and he’d damn well deserve it. He diagnosed my husband with a rare type of migraine, after weeks of research and the treatment is a dead cheap calcium channel blocker. This was 8 years after many misdiagnoses - depression, anxiety, delusions, TIAs, and his life is great now. This from the only neuro in the hospital and he does a great job.

We are just patients and cases. That’s the way that medicine works. So what? If we receive decent clinical treatment from our doctors, then this is great.

Life is complicated. Nothing is black or white and MS is really complicated. What works for one person, won’t for another and then there’s all the progressive forms that don’t respond to drug therapies.

Your views on pharmaceutical connections would be acceptable if you were writing from the US. Medicine for profit is quite different and yes, neuros in the US do receive kickbacks for prescribing certain drugs, but in the UK and other European countries with socialised/universal healthcare, this is rarely true.

You wrote that your specialist is treating your MRI, not you. Well, you may be amazed to learn that in the UK, you’ll probably get one MRI for diagnosis and no more - ever. If you are on a drug trial or Tysabri, then there’ll be more MRIs, but most people only ever get one MRI.

Why do you expect your Neurologist to become your one-stop therapist? It’s not possible and unfair to expect yours to be a doctor, nutritionist and physiotherapist/trainer. People only get one appointment per year. I’d love to know how you think that this can work - especially as that appointment lasts about 20 to 30 minutes.

In the UK, back when I was diagnosed, you’d see a neurologist who’d say, ‘yes, I know there are some drugs to slow down the relapse rate, but they cost too much and the government won’t let us prescribe them.’ People with MS were just ignored. Now, that’s an outrage and thank goodness things have changed.

In an ideal world, we would start Tysabri (I’ve been on it 8 months or so) at exactly the right moment - i.e. before anything too bad and permanent happents, but JUST before. But none of us can see into the future, so that is always a tricky call. All we can do, it seems to me, is take the best advice available and hope for the best. That’s always been my guiding principle, anyway.

The JC+ and two year business is the joker in the pack, obviously, and that is a tricky one to deal with (I haven’t been tested BTW.) As others have said, it would be good to have clarity about what they mean here - is there a local guideline that says two years only, or is it more a matter of reviewing individuals and deciding, with the patient, how to proceed after two years and a review of the risks and benefits for the individual? As others have said, that’s one to talk to the neuroligist about, It think.

Personally, if I got to the end of 2 years and was lucky enough to be doing well on Tysabri, I think I would make a heck of a fuss if anyone tried to take me off it, JC status notwithstanding.

I completley support other posters who have stressed that diet and nutrition and so on are central to wellbeing but are are a complement to conventional medicine - and absolutely not an alternative to it - if a person is unlucky enough to have highly active RRMS.

If you do go ahead with the Tysabri, I hope it is a real success for you.

Alison

x

LDN is available in Southern Ireland, I went to the LDN/ CCSVI medical conference and the new supplier had a stand there. I know they have had problems with supplies but as I understand it the doctors in Southern Ireland have found a way round those problems.

I did not take any details of the supplier but if you contact Quinns Pharmacy they should be able to sourse it or tell you who can.

http://www.quinnspharmacy.ie/

not sure what to say about Tsyabri/PML- this was presented to me as a set of very limited options a while ago so I do sympathise with you-whatever option though, DMDs have always been put to me as “an investment for the future” I always thought that even if you are fine now (or at least you feel fine now) early treatment was best as has been proven to be the most effective, regardless of whatever DMD? Get as much objective info before you do anything xxx

Are you still on tysabri? Is it still effective?