PIP and the appeal process - is it worth it?

Finance and benefits
1

hey all,

after a lengthy application process, my pip application was rejected. I have RRMS and am in some ways in good health/fitness - but I am also subject to a number of difficult, debilitating symptoms, not least fatigue. I was perhaps naively confident in my application and felt it demonstrated, most simply, that my earning power would be significantly reduced as a result of MS: part-time work in a much simpler career, particularly compared to my career thus far.

is there any point pursuing it further via an appeal process? I am so disappointed and so angry in the whole situation - already, before the diagnosis, health has clearly impact my ability to work - and feel the way it was dismissed was almost insulting.

but do others have experience in this process, and can help sway if it is a good idea to pursue it or not?

do others have tips for those undertaking the PIP application process?

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Hi James.

I hope you’re keeping relatively well mate :+1:

Yes - 100% it’s worth appealing. Most of us paid into that system for a long time (just over 30 years for me) none of us want to be on benefits but, now that we’re having to play a crap hand, we’re entitled to take a little back for a leg up so, give them both barrels - tell them all the worst bits. I was too proud at first (of course I can still walk 20 MTRS and make a sandwich - I’m still a man for god’s sake, just a bit faulty now) but, it was that pride that did me wrong. They love a chance to reject an application and, will happily grasp it with both hands. After I’d sat and considered it and read their letters for a while. Their 2 or 3 rejections felt like a smack in the face. Especially when you realise some of the cases that do get awarded so, I applied to take it to a tier 1 tribunal. I thought, that’ll do - they can see me wobble in, barely able to see where I’m trying to go, watch my hands and arms shake and, maybe even take one of my inappropriate comments that seem to come from nowhere nowadays :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

It turned out that they didn’t fancy a tribunal (I had my good pants ready for the meeting and everything :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

A nice lady phoned me and proposed adding points all over the place and changing bits and bobs. She said that I still had the right to carry on with the tribunal if I wished but, I was now on the maximum award. She also gave me back dated payment right to the start. It’s all designed to be hardwork but, do keep going :+1:

I’m no professional advisor but, do feel free to message me if my experience can ever help you at all.

Of course I’d rather still be in my old career but, the PIP award does help to keep the bills paid here.

Keep your chin up mate - All the best :slightly_smiling_face::+1:

Jon.

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As per Jon’s (@jthatcher) advice, yes, you could go for it. However I’d temper that with caution. Unfortunately, you are going to get worse, not better, due to this infernal disease. And next time you reapply, the questions will be easier to answer. In the meantime, be careful not to over-embellish your condition, particularly if your claim goes beyond statements that would be upheld by your MS Team or Consultant.

It could just be that while you are suffering, you may not be suffering enough - yet! The system is far from perfect and is too granular. Payments are yes/no and should be more progressive.

Graeme

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I like to think you meant well when you wrote this graeme, but you know I’m not entirely sure

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thanks so much for this jon - it’s incredibly helpful and I appreciate the time and thought you put into it. I’m glad your experience resolved itself so successfully and hope you got to whack out the good pants to celebrate your award.

as you say, I will also sit and consider their letters for a while and work out what to do next. I may well take your up on your offer to chat it over, so thank you

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James I would definitely appeal.

I was successful but my sister who also has MS wasn’t at the first and second attempt.

She felt the person she had spoken to at the DWP hadn’t listened to what she had to say about how MS effects her .

I helped her appeal and we gathered additional medical evidence from her Neurologist, GP and physiotherapist.

My sister had given up her job in the NHS after 35+ years as she could no longer manage it due to fatigue , cognitive and severe mobility issues and had been assessed by Occupational Health as unfit for work and received early ill health retirement.

Just before the appeal for PIP went to a tribunal with the DWP , a decent person from the DWP , who seemed to listen and understand my sisters difficulties , went through the various questions and on the basis of her replies awarded her more points and PIP was granted.

Don’t give up James you may well be entitled to PIP

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this is fantastic - thank you. appreciate every word of this. that’s exactly how I feel - I feel the time and effort into spelling out how this illness slows and complicates my life has been completely neglected. I was given 0 scores for daily living and mobility and wanted to scream. it was almost insulting.

I’m so glad you had a decent person from DWP and so glad to hear it worked out. I’ll take a little time to reflect, but I’d like to think I will follow your lead and appeal - it would be an enormous help.

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James, forgive me if I’ve got it wrong but did you initially fill the forms out with the help of the Benefits and Work website? They have extensive and helpful guides on how to answer the questions so you give the right impression of how your MS affects you and what help you need. For example whether you can carry out a task safely reliably and repetitively. They also give guidance on how to deal with the appeal process and if necessary, tribunals. And above all the importance of evidence from your medical team, neuro, MS Nurse if you have one, GP, physio… everyone!

I found the only way I could get through this over and over again over the years was to treat it like a project I had to complete. It’s just horrible but worth it in the end.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

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hey kestrel, thanks for this.

no, I completed it solely using the online questionnaire form. I will certainly look into this when it comes to the appeal process. thanks for the tip - I will keep in mind.

do you mind me asking whether you were successful in appealing? and indeed how long that may have taken?

thanks again, and I hope you’re well

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Hi James. I haven’t had to appeal myself but there have been many people here who have successfully appealed using that website. Do have a look, it is well worth it. What to emphasise on the forms is very much what help you need.

Very best of luck

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heh folks, thank you all for your kind guidance and advise with this. it was all very welcome

you persuaded me not to give up with it and I sent my first appeal away in the post last weekend - I’ve been told it’s a 15 week wait, so that will be that until september now.

thank you for all your help, and here’s hoping. I’ll update you with any news!

I hope you’re keeping well, and ready for warmer days…

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Hi there

I’ve recently been through the process and it’s more about how it affects your everyday living now rather than topping up any shortfall in income.

For example, do you need a carer to help you or do you need adaptions in your home due to your disability.

Hope that helps x

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Absolutely this :+1:

When I applied, gave them a costed list of aids & adaptions where I had “invested” to make my life easier due as a result of disability. As you say, PIP is not a substitute for earned income or a means to go shorter hours, so any confusion will not be favourably received.

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hey everyone, an update for you..

received another rejection this morning. not quite as aggravating as last time as the substance of what they said I agreed with, but still felt there was a minimizing, dismissive attitude (they rated me 0 for everything - again) that did make me rather angry.

given energy and time are a little limited, I am a little wary of taking it to tribunal. I imagine that would take a lot more work. but what are your thoughts and experiences here?

for context: I have RRMS which can be better and a lot worse. fatigue is a problem, and working full time is not an option, at least for now. are there any options beyond PIP for making up lost earnings?

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Hi James, I hope you’re keeping well :crossed_fingers:

Those horrible chancers are just trying their luck again - they do it loads in the hope that those of us that can no longer be on our A game will just give up and go away. Definitely go for the tier 1 tribunal mate. It’s not easy but, it is worth doing. Put the kettle on and grab a pad, a pen and their last letter (this is the bit that will take most time)

Number out their sections that you disagree with (I disagreed with every single zero on mine)and, put down your frank, honest answers of how they got it wrong and, what your difficulty is and how it effects you daily (don’t be proud -give them everything. I have rolled forward off the toilet halfway through using it before because of a focal aware seizure. Now my missus won’t let me shut the door and, the dog sits there looking at me wondering what’s going on :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:)

This will be your notes for filling out info on line for the tribunal service. (Do get help for that bit if you need it it can be less taxing that way and, a second pair of eyes for these things is never a bad idea) Once they’ve got it they will start work behind the scenes for you. DWP often will try to put things right in the case quickly because everything in the tribunal is charged to them (the people involved, the room needed, your costs for getting there, the lot and, there’s a chance that a tribunal may award a bit more for your trouble (that has happened before)

You possibly won’t have to attend a physical tribunal either (I didn’t)

For the work thing - again don’t be proud - now is not the time for that. Understand your limits and pace yourself within them. I took a 40hr a week job last year and, all I got for my efforts was a Tonic clonic seizure and 2 days out for the count in hospital.

As @Hank_Dogs says, your condition isn’t going to get any better now(Sorry mate)

You can also claim Universal credit to help keep your head above water. I do. It’s not a wage and, I’ve had to tighten my belt quite a bit but, it makes sure that I can pay the important bills.

There are a few places that can help with making sure that you’re claiming what you’re entitled to. Even help with all the forms. I think one of them is CAB. someone may mention some of the others soon.

Do please go for it mate - your life doesn’t need to be any harder than it is now.

Take care and, all the best :+1:

Jon.

A strange fact to end that my Mum told me - pack animals like dogs, will often maintain eye contact when they’re pooing because they’re vulnerable at that time It’s a pack protection instinct. Still a little odd though :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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In the MS Together group (full of younger folks!) we often talk about the challenges with PIP and ADP. The one key thing that often gets said is that it is so important to challenge the decision if you don’t agree with it, and you definitely should!

The MS Society site is pretty great for this, as well as the Help Hub but remember that you are entitled to mandatory reconsideration which most folks in the group seem to need to go through.

You’ve got this, and I know it sucks going through the process but there are places that can help beyond the society :heart: I recall that I went to a session held by http://pipps.co.uk/ and it was very useful!

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first things first: apologies for the delay, and thank you for the fascinating fact

thank you for all this - it’s much appreciated. I’m very much torn because I’m not convinced the time and effort and energy required for a tribunal (for another likely no) is worth it. this time, I could see where they were coming from in their rejection even if I still strongly disagreed with the 0 scores for everything. I gave them every last grizzly detail (and the details are certainly grizzly).

how long does it take to go to tribunal once the process is underway? what is the format? I worry that as I can still generally walk OK, largely look healthy, they will take a look at me and make up minds immediately.

as for work, I am no longer up to full time work but, in DWPs eyes, well enough to work - I at least would have to work part-time. I tried to claim universal credit, but had too much in savings…

the crux of my problem is, even though life has become considerably more difficult with MS and has/will affect my work life, I do not yet need to invest in wheelchairs, carers, etc., and that is the substance of DWPs rejection. I can’t really argue with it, and I thus feel in something of a limbo…

thanks again for all this jon - really appreciate it.

has anyone been in a similar situation to mine and had any experience with PIP applications?

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first up - welcome to the forum jonathan! and thank you for your kind response

I will certainly take a look into MS together. as it happens, I have just been rejected from mandatory reconsideration, and feel a little torn whether to go through to tribunal. perhaps I will put it to the new forum.

have you had any experiences with PIP?

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I haven’t actually! I’m up in Scotland and was pretty shocked that I managed to get ADP without any struggle, but I know many folks in the MS Together group who have went through hell to get their PIP.

It definitely sounds like a real struggle, but hearing from folks who have went to tribunal, it seems like it’s the right thing to do!

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Thank you for your reply- that’s oddly encouraging, as I lived in glasgow for six years and hope to move back soon. I’m glad it’s worked out for you. The scots just look after their people better..

Do you mind me asking which MS you have? Put another way, I have RRMS and wondered if that was something of a barrier in my application.

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