Natural Herbal Treatments and Medications

Everyday living
21

Hello,

I totally agree with anon. Perfectly put, people know that cannabis works for them but have to pay and be classed as criminals.

I have read many posts (in other ms forums), where “legal” drugs don’t help but “illegal” ones do. I can’t argue against them using cannabis. If a time comes when legal drugs don’t work i will look towards things like cannabis. But Iam well informed at what the side-effects are.

Just like avonex, the good its doing for me out weigh the possible side-effect.

Darren

22

My point is that cannabis, if regulated and made available to only those who need it as a medicine (and there is huge anecdotal evidence that it has medicinal benefits, as there is for opiates and other drugs that are considered ‘dangerous’ including aspirin) would mean that it is not available for those who might have a problem with it, including children. Aspirin is available without prescription, can be bought by children and will kill if overdosed upon. Cannabis has never killed and is impossible to overdose on. Does this not strike you as bizarre? Surely if it was available only as a prescription medication, supplied by chemists, it would be safer than forcing sick people to buy it from dealers, who are happy to sell their contaminated, sub standard wares to any one with money (including children) To all intents and purposes GW Pharmaceuticals are already trying to do this with Sativex (which is not cannabis ‘based’ but is actually cannabis dissolved in alcohol) but sadly most PHT’s will not authorise its prescription on a cost basis. I have a solution, allow people to buy the natural product from a pharmacy, like they can in the US, Netherlands, Czech Republic etc

23

[quote=“MrsH”] I think the most salient point is, regardless of your stance, your MS is your MS and ownership of its management is entirely down to the individual. My concern will always be that your drug of choice should be taken with full cognisance of the pro’s or con’s of it’s usage. This is simply not the case with cannabis. And an educational video should be available to educate. [/quote] I agree to a certain degree and this is the issue. Not enough research is being done in the UK because of scaremongering by the press and ignorance of the government. If we followed the changing attitude of the US as an example, we might actually be able to do research in this country, without the stigma attached. Historically our governments have just buried their heads in the sand because middle England votes seem to be more important to them. Look at the example of Prof. David Nutt… Quite sad really.

24

Yes; it only happens to a few of us but the numbers growing. I lost my darling boy to this drug; no he did not die by using it but it is a gateway to other more harmful; illegal drugs.

on’t quote America’s 13 states as being proactive. You will probably find these States passionate about selling guns to every Tom; Dick and Harry or not giving Health Care to 40 million of its inhabitants.

How the hell do you expect any Government to only let a small section of society have a drug that is illegal for the rest? Leaves the way open for the selling of drugs to people who can’t have them legally.

You cannot prohibit anything; believe me after much soul searching I came to the conclusion we should go like Portugal and de-criminalise every drug. Why are drugs so rife? Because pushers earn lots of money. The Police and HMC will not stop this trade although they do well; they will admit that.

Take away this by putting all drugs free under the NHS and you instantly stop 60% of people in jail stealing to fund their habit, drug barons making vast fortunes. Less people in Jail think of the money saved, we would even have room to incarcerate real criminals like motorists. Police would be able, and have the man-power to concentrate on real crime.

Our schools are becoming ideal places for pushers to ply their evil trade, take away their money making; I won’t say earning; trade and you will have no pushers.

Did you know it’s very rarely the drug that kills but the st it is cut with, and sometimes it is st.

A little added bonus, the NHS would be able to buy supplies from Afghanistan; the leaders would soon realize it is more profitable to sell drugs legally. I believe it is assumed that 40% of money from Cocaine is estimated to go to Al Keida to fund terrorism?

The greatest advantage though is that all drug users would be known and helped kicking the habit.

In Portugal it was thought that de-criminalising drugs would make it the drug capital of the world. What has it done in reality, reduce drug taking by 10% in a year.

We must start thinking outside the box and stop just thinking it’s wrong so we will ban it. This is not a self inflicted problem it is pure peer pressure, you must take a couple of Es to enjoy yourself all night, others do?

Society cannot prohibit much if anything, what happened with Alcohol prohibition in the USA? All it led to was the rise of the Mafia.

Reasons for de-criminalising

  • 60% less in jail
  • Less Jails needed
  • Less staff
  • Drug Barons get no money
  • Police/HMC can concentrate on real crime
  • Less Police/HMC needed
  • Stop drugs being sold in schools
  • Drugs given to people would be clean
  • Addicts can be monitored and possible weaned off
  • Would be able to buy drugs from Afghanistan
  • If done correctly it could turn that campaign into a win

Reasons to not de-criminalise

  • It is not morally right

George

25

Here is a link to some more information about the medicinal benefits of cannabis for MS sufferers… 4Thought - Faith, Religion, Morals, Ethics This young man is an inspiration and is not frightened to speak his mind. Thank you Clark French and keep up the good work.

26

Here is a link featuring a young man who is not frightened to speak his mind about the benefits of cannabis as a medicine 4Thought - Faith, Religion, Morals, Ethics More people should be like him and stand up for our rights as human beings who deserve a quality of life, rather than accepting the side effects of some of the prescription drugs we are given. Thank you Clark and Channel 4!

27

George, I am am really sorry to hear about your loss… I think the issue of full legalisation or decriminalisation of all drugs is a very complex issue and something that needs discussing outside of this forum. I am looking at things purely from a medicinal perspective and the use of cannabis clearly has benefits for those, like me, who suffer from MS and even other diseases, like AIDS & cancer. Here is a link to an article from Channel 4, whom I thank for their bravery for publishing: 4Thought - Faith, Religion, Morals, Ethics This young guy is an inspiration to all those who believe that adults should have a little more input into their treatments.

28

Yes. Just ask anyone who has been burgled by some druggie looking for something to sell to get the next fix!

The only people who criminalise those who ingest cannabis in any form other than Sativex are - of course - themselves.

Geoff

29

Eactly that, we need more input into what we put in our bodys. Even dmd’s come with very harmful side-effects.

The medicinal effects of cannabis in ms i can’t ignore. I have heard many claim such possitive effects. Seems to be a bit like ldn, works a treat for some but not for others.

I don’t feel comfortable criminalising people trying to ease their symptoms. When legal drugs don’t work what do you do? suffer? i hope not!

Darren

30

[quote=“DoctorGeoff”]

Yes. Just ask anyone who has been burgled by some druggie looking for something to sell to get the next fix!

The only people who criminalise those who ingest cannabis in any form other than Sativex are - of course - themselves.

Geoff

[/quote] I think you need to be a little less sweeping with your stigmatic statements! Firstly, what is a ‘druggie’? Is a person who uses the ‘legal’ drug alcohol a druggie? How many people end up in A&E because of alcohol druggies fighting and abusing other people after ingesting too much of their drug of choice? How many times do the police have to go to public houses, the places where publicans (‘legal’ drug dealers) sell the ‘legal’ drug alcohol, to break up fights? How many times do the Dutch police need to break up fights between those who choose cannabis are their drug of choice? I think you will find the latter a lot more peaceful and ‘laid bag’ and the former is a huge issue. Do you drink alcohol? I think you will find that the vast majority of burglaries are carried out by people addicted to drugs like heroin, crack cocaine and amphetamines, not those who ingest cannabis. The ‘stepping stone’ drug theory is completely unproven. Is alcohol not possibly a ‘stepping stone’ drug? Laws change, especially unfair ones. It was not that long ago that it was illegal for a man to have a relationship with another man or woman with another woman. Thankfully these laws have changed. Did you advocate gay people being imprisoned because they were breaking the cruel laws of the 1960’s? We are talking about sick people here, not recreational users. The issue with Sativex (pure cannabis plant matter and alcohol) is that a lot of Primary Healthcare Trusts will not allow its prescription on cost grounds (another postcode lottery situation) The government are being incredibly hypocritical allowing GW Pharmaceuticals to grow a plant called cannabis, whilst at the same time publicly stating that cannabis has no medical benefit. Prescribe raw medicinal cannabis through chemists, which is very cheap to grow, as it is one of the Earth most efficiantly growing plants, to those who need it to ease their suffering. I believe it is almost criminal not to!

31

Just wanted to add a few of my own experiences to this debate.

I tried cannabis for a while, while the big trials were being done (in this country) to see if it slowed down progression of MS. These were proper, double-blind, placebo controlled trials, which showed that cannabis doesn’t affect progression. I think it does help with pain and spasticity but I don’t know of trials showing this (I haven’t looked for them - I assume there is trial data for Sativex).

I wasn’t part of the trial, but I took my cannibis by heating the dried plant very gently in olive oil - heating over boiling water, not directly over heat, for a couple of hours. I strained out the cannibis and kept the oil, eating (drinking?) a tablespoon full a day. This is a way to get the THC without the harmful effects of smoking.

Finally, I lost my only aunt and my father to alcohol. They were both alcoholics for years. My aunt died of liver cancer and my father died of a heart attack after inhaling some food. He had heart disease, probably caused by his drinking and one is also more likely to inhale food if one is an alcoholic (this is because of the muscle weakening effects of this powerful drug). Alcohol wasn’t even mentioned on my father’s death certificate. Alcohol is a horrible drug that ruins lives.

So - alcohol is a dangerous drug that is widely used and not controlled at all, for adults at least. I’d say cannabis is probably less dangerous, again for adults (I think it can have bad effects on developing brains) and should be available medicinally at the very least, if it has proven good effects.

32

There’s no such thing as a safe drug.

33

[quote=“hcd”] There’s no such thing as a safe drug. [/quote] You are correct hcd. This is a fact. Alcohol, aspirin, paracetamol, cocaine, heroin, caffeine… These all have theotential to kill. The list goes on and on… However, some are more dangerous than others. It is a fact that cannabis has never killed anyone directly. If it were regulated and controlled by chemists and physicians for the sick, like opiates it would less likely be abused… (Like the ‘accepted’ drug alcohol tends to be) Give the sick the choice!

34

Opiates are just as easily abused. For addicts who are unable to obtain or afford there next heroin hit, opiates make their way onto the streets. Prescription drugs are readily available without a prescription. Legalisation has not prevented opiate abuse.

35

I’m not sure where you heard this, but it is not true. See this paper for just one source contradicting your point: Bachs & Morland (2001). Acute cardiovascular fatalities following cannabis use. Forensic Science International, 124, 200-203.

The authors also cite multiple other publications reporting fatalities due to cannabis toxicity.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379073801006090

Incidentally, for anyone who thinks smoking cannabis is fine as long as you don’t use tobacco, the evidence shows that it is just as bad, if not worse in some ways.

As hcd already said, there is no such thing as a safe drug. If you choose to use it, please understand the risks.

36

I used canabis resin in brownies when I was undergoing treatment for cancer. my mac nurse knew and i got good advice from others in the unit. I don’t smoke and I rarely drink. I do know that I wouldnt hesitate to use the drug again. It’s not a pain killer but it sure makes it a lot easier to deal with, I used to eat a small brownie (I made a batch with an 1/8th and froze them) about 2 hrs before I went to bed and it allowed my brain to let me sleep. Its not a cure and for me it wasn’t addictive (in fact I found some left in a bag when I was defrosting my freezer lol), I wouldnt drive with it in my system no more than I would with drink. I do believe it would help to regulate it, it should be allowed medicianly, I beleive that we wouldnt see some of the harmful side effects of the substances that its regularily cut with. I was lucky that my son knew a lady who grew it herself, I knew where it came from and who produced it. Just MHO x

37

MrsH, We are talking about cannabis, a medicine that can really help the sick here. A medicine not a recreational drug (although personally I support legalisation of cannabis for recreational use, a drug less harmful than alcohol) Should we ban all medicines that are are open to potential abuse? How far do we go down this route? Ban opiates? Ban boxing? Ban horse riding? Ban cars? Alcohol is also readily abused by alcoholics and children, do you advocate the prohibition of this recreational drug? There needs to be an open debate about cannabis and, sadly, this will not happen as long as the government refuses to accept that the prohibition of this (and probably all, currently banned) recreational drug(s) is not working. Maybe would should take a leaf out of the Portuguese book? But this is a subject for a different discussion. The media has a lot to answer for in this debate. Read balanced historical and scientific reports and information on this matter and you will start to understand why cannabis was made illegal in the first place in 1937 and do not forget it has been used as such for thousands of years. In fact Queen Victoria used it to help ease her period cramps… Just research Harry Anslinger… I think that you will be surprised… Remember, ‘poor’ journalism is journalism without enough research, ‘bad’ journalism is journalism with selective truths and lies and good journalism is built on just the truth!

38

I don’t subscribe to journalistic or other media hype. My stance is a stark one, influenced by a professional life soent clearing up and dealing with the devastation that cannabis causes. I’ve seen it, dealt with it and am saddened by it. It doesn’t mean that there is an answer to the abuse of a multiplicity of addictive substances, legally and illegally obtained but cannabis was the debate. And my issue was and always will surround the level of ignorance and education around cannabis. Other addictive substances have widely recognised harmful consequences that users are cognisant of. But nobody told the man who threw himself off the bridge, that he would develop a deeply entrenched psychosis…he was only having a joint occasionally with his mates. Ask an alcoholic if they’re addicted and the answer will usually be, no, I can stop at any time. Ask them if they’re damaging they’re health and they’ll say, I’m just a social drinker. I need it to escape the pain / stress / help me sleep. And exactly the same happens with anyone who abuses a substance. Who has heard the smoker say, well my grandad smoked 80 a day all his life and died when he was 102 in his sleep. It’s called denial. There is a wealth of information out there about the dangers of cannabis use, some if which has been posted on here. People are giving their professional and personal opinions for a reason…because they have seen first hand how destructive this drug can be.

39

If all available meds legally to you do not work where cannabis does what do you do? suffer? who knows???

Its heart breaking that we have no cure so we have to symptom manage. But are limited in doing so. I know first hand what cannabis abuse can do to some, but i also know what good it does to many who use it for symptom relief.

I feel we need regulated cannabis available for people who will benefit from its use, not everyone will agree but i would hate to see anyone suffer.

Darren

40

Darren, I totally agree. I would try anything that is legal, if I had to. My argument has only ever been surrounding ignorance of the very real consequences of taking something. And as someone on Rebif I know this applies to legal drugs too but my health is being closely monitored and I was educated about the drug prior to starting it.