New and very confused

Hi this is my first time here and hopefully there will be someone out there that can help.

Was diagnosed with RRMS about 8 months now and am still trying to get my head around the fact . So naturally my emotions are all over the place! My neuro has advised me to start on copaxone but is not being over pushy, so at the moment I am trying hard to remain calm, improve my diet and take all the important supplements.

My real reason for not starting on the DMT is first of all I hate injections and know that I would get completely stressed every single day and have been told one must reduce stress - how on earth is that possible?

Maxie

Hi Maxie, welcome and sorry to here you have ms. I am on Dmd’s I take Avonex which is only one injection a week. There are several different ones that you can look at if you google msdecisions. You are still quite newly dx so you must still be trying to get your head around it all. Good luck and keep me posted. Karen x

Hi Maxie, and welcome to the site

It’s no easy thing get your head around an MS diagnosis so 8 months is still pretty early days. You’ll get there though - just take it one day at a time.

As far as the injections go, I guess it depends on just how scared you are of injections. There are fancy autoinjectors available these days so that you don’t actually have to see the needle and it’s amazing how quick even the most needle-phobic of people can get into a routine with daily injections. I confess I was far than happy at the thought, but within 2-3 weeks, doing my Copaxone injection was equivalent to brushing my teeth - just another part of my getting up routine. There was sometimes a wee bit of stinging or itching afterwards, but having a shower, getting dressed, etc was enough to take my mind off it.

Unless there is a reason that you can’t have beta-interferon, you should maybe consider one of them too though - they are all less frequently injected (Avonex once a week, Betaferon and Rebif three times a week). Copaxone stopped working for me so I’m on Rebif now and use the Rebismart autoinjector. The little cups that hold the needles for it mean that you can’t see the needle at any time unless you look for it, and even then it’s so fine it’s difficult to spot!

If you haven’t already done so, have a look on the msdecisions website, as Karen has already said.

Hth.

Karen x

Hi, I was diagnosed in June, complete shocker!! I too hate needles. Before all of this the one thing I though I would never be able to do is inject myself. I will also do anything I can to prevent another relapse and this horrible disease from progressing any further. I have not suffered as others on here have but lost my sight for couple of months and the use of my left side in March. I have made a good recovery and have adapted my lifestyle to manage leftover symptoms. I started Rebif yesterday and after nearly fainting at the thought of pressing rebismart button…I did it! I could feel nothing, not even a scratch and you don’t have to see a needle it’s all hidden away. The nurse was amazing and stayed with me throughout and for couple of hours after to make sure I was alright. One of the reasons for me choosing Rebif was for the machine and smaller needles but realise its not for everyone. All I can say is please try not to worry! I couldn’t sleep for worrying and am now so cross with myself. Good luck with whatever you decide. X

Well done

Let yourself off for being worried - who wouldn’t be?!?!

Fingers crossed it works really well for you

Karen x

Thank you all for your encouragement and advice I really appreciate hearing from people that are going through the same problems and worry.

I will as you say take time to decide about the DMTs although my neurologist has said that Copaxone is the only one he would suggest at the moment, so I suppose it would be that or nothing!

I have been reading up about this and wonder how the drug companies set up these trials. Having seen how un predictable this disease is how do they know the people on these trials would not have had less relapses anyhow or do they only take on people that have been relapsing frequently? It does seem such a gamble to inject a drug without really knowing if it is going to have an effect>

May be it would be better to do less research and just get on with it !! Google is a great tool but probably I would do better not look things up all the time!!!

Google is great for some things…but if you try to self diagnose a headache before you know it, you’ll have TB in your elbow!!!

The way these sorts of trials are run is to compare large groups of people, each group on a different treatment (e.g. the DMD and a placebo, two different doses of a DMD or two different DMDs). Using large numbers cancels out individual differences - e.g. if you wanted to know the average height of 13 year olds, you would get close to the proper number if you measured 1000 random 13 year olds, but you’d probably be way out if you measured only 10 random 13 year olds.

So you start one group on a DMD and one group on a placebo and regularly monitor their relapse rates, the number of lesions on their MRI, any progression, etc. For the original DMD trials, this was done for at least 2 years. At the end of this, you compare the group data and see what difference the DMD has made, if any. Some studies go on to put the placebo group also onto the DMD - this gives the chance to see what difference starting later makes as well as what difference being on a DMD for longer makes.

Neuros refer patients to the trial based on pre-agreed criteria (e.g. newly diagnosed, EDSS less than 6 (EDSS is a measure of disability), relapsing remitting MS, etc), but they don’t know what group the patient will be assigned to - it’s done randomly by a computer programme, so no one knows who’s getting what.

The data are compared using statistics. If there was no difference between the treatments, the numbers should be the same. However, differences could happen by pure chance so there is a standard rule in all research that differences are only believed if they could have happened by chance at most 5% of the time (you’ll see this as p<0.05; smaller numbers mean less chance of it being a fluke, e.g. p<0.01). This can mean that even when there is quite a big difference in the numbers, it may not be accepted as evidence that the drug did better than the placebo.

Betaferon was the first of the currently available DMDs to publish data, I think in 1995. The research team is still gathering and reporting data - they have kept in touch with as many people as possible and are still monitoring the effects. The same goes for the other teams. So the things we know about DMDs don’t just come from the initial trials. There are more than just the initial trials too because new drugs have to do a trial against older drugs, to show if they are better or not. So, e.g. Gilenya was tested against Avonex and Campath was tested against Rebif in the past couple of years. So these kind of studies also provide data.

There’s a lot more to it than that, but the upshot is that you can believe the data: injectable DMDs reduce the number of relapses that we have by 30% on average (i.e. across all the people in the trial). That “on average” means that some people do very much better, some people do worse and everyone else is somewhere in between. Neuros generally say that a treatment has failed if someone has a “clinically significant” relapse after they have been on it for at least 6 months-1 year (they can take a while to get properly into our systems). At that point, you should be offered a stronger DMD. At the moment, if you start on Copaxone, you will be offered an interferon next. If you start on an interferon, you will be offered Copaxone or Gilenya or Tysabri (depending on MRI results).

I’m not sure why your neuro is only offering Copaxone. Perhaps he thought it would be helpful to give you a suggestion, but according to NICE, the decision about what we get is ours and we can choose from Copaxone, Avonex, Rebif, Betaferon and Extavia (which is Betaferon under a different name). Interferon is sometimes avoided for patients with a history of depression though, which is not uncommon in people with MS.

Hth.

Karen x

Thank you Karen the information is really helpful. I think my neuro suggested Copaxone as I am ultra sensitive to drugs ( even antibiotics ) so I suppose he thought that is the one with the least side effects.

I am going to have a really good think about these drugs but it appears slightly trial and error which is worrying but then I suppose everyone reacts to drugs differently.

I really appreciate your feed back, where did you get all this knowledge from?!

I’ve had MS quite a long time, I used MRI in my PhD and I do a lot of reading - my department at Uni kindly allow me to continue to use my library access despite no longer working there so, if I don’t know something or I just want to learn about something, I can access a lot of original papers. It keeps me busy :slight_smile: Kx