Assisted dying

I watched a BBC debate about this a few weeks ago. There was a guy whos mother had a motor neurone type illness and she went to Dignity in Switzerland. His mother went sooner than she really wanted to but if she left it much longer she would have had a problem getting there. His argument was that if it had been available in the UK she would have lived another year of so before requesting it to be done. It was a genetic condition and she had watched her father and brother have a terrible death from it.

Moyna xxx

Hi everyone,

I for my own thoughts are all for this to be made legal, the sooner the better.

With the correct procedures and regulations in place to protect the vulnerable and at risk. I do not see any problem with the assisted departure from this world. We do it for our pets and animals.

Why prolong life, if the person feels his/her life is horrendous and wishes to leave, whilst still with their own thoughts and ability to make their own decissions, by themselves.

I think, at the momment, legelly in switzland you still have to lift the drugs by your own hand, NO one else can assist you in any way or form apart from placing the drugs in a room and leaving you there to do the deed, by yourself, alone.

The people I find who do not like this arrangement, are people who do not face MS, or other major health condition, people who quote “it is against gods wishes” (don’t get me started there) if you do not believe, why should they decide for you, and people who just do not understand what a person goes through just thinking about the decision.

Hope I’ve expressed my feelings, I still intend to go screaming and kicking in life to the very end. But I do wish if things got really bad I could go when I decided to and not be used as a doctors experimental plaything. Pumping me full of drugs !!

Yours. Andy

I think most people don’t bother with a living will because it doesn’t stand for much, it may be taken into consideration if you are lucky.

But when it’s a question as important as this, don’t you do everything in your power to get things to go the way you want. If the idea that it’s not certain that the doctors will take notice of your living will means you can’t be bothered to write it (it’s not hard to do) then, presumably, you aren’t that bothered about what happens at the end of your life. Or is there something I’m not understanding here?

Advanced directive ( living will) done through a solicitor does count. It’s easy to verify what I’m saying is correct . I worked in palliative care, I know this is true. X

There is a lady in her 50s who lives near m Mum. She got menangitis badly. While she was out of it the doctors said her only hope was to remove both arms and legs. Hubby and children consented. When she woke up she was furiious and wished they had just let her go. I thinlk I would have the same view and have told my husband so!

Moyna xxx

For Andy, in the world which you hope is coming, will every doctor be required to end someone’s life, if that’s what the person wants? Or will the doctors have a choice? I think doctors would have to be given the choice, but then what happens if hardly any doctors choose to end peoples’ lives?

My elderly father has stated many many times that once it gets to the stage where/if he can no longer look after his own personal needs then he doesn’t want to live any more and certainly would not wish to be resuscitated after any major medical event.

I was just assuming we could inform doctors of this if the situation occured, but perhaps I should look into the “living will” option to make sure we can carry out his wishes.

On a slightly different note, and at the risk of being slightly controversial here…my Mum passed away 4 years ago after a long fight against cancer. She received palliative care for 4 months, the last one of which was spent in a hospice. We all knew, as did my Mum, that there was nothing more that could be done for her, and the doctors just gave her the appropriate level of sedation/pain medication etc to keep her as comfortable as possible. As she became more and more ill, they gradually increased the medication until she finally slipped peacefully into a coma and passed away peacefully 4 days later.

Never did we have a conversation about this, either with Mum or the doctors, but it was the kindest, least traumatic thing to do and it was done with dignity and care. This, in my opinion, was “legal” assisted dying and I am so thankful for it. I am sure this is the natural and normal treatment for someone in this condition, and rightly so. Mum was ready to go, had had enough pain and trauma, and this was recognised and handled with care and consideration. It was totally the right thing to do. Would this be classed as “assisted dying” in a court of law, or just making a patient’s last days as comfortable and pain-free as possible? I, for one, wouldn’t have had it any other way, and I know Mum would agree.

It’s a thorny one and as many people have pointed out you wouldn’t let an animal suffer the way some people suffer. I lost my mum to dementia and I know she wouldn’t have wanted to live the way she did towards the end. Bedridden, unable to see, speak, or feed herself. It was dreadful, but it’s a big ask to get someone to kill you. Is it fair to ask those trained to heal and preserve life to take a life?

Hi, I think this topic will rumble on forever.

Every one has their own wishes and thoughts and we have to respect them, on both sides.

I myself do have power of attorney already prepared and also DNR on my health records.

If I got to a stage which I consider, that enough was enough, hopefully I would have the feelings not to rely on any health person to actually do the deed.

I know it takes an extreme amount of guts to complete the task, but even with auto injection it maybe possible in the future.

I wait for your replies. Andy

I can assure you purpledot, your mum died from her cancer. The drugs where just given at the appropriate dose for her needs :slight_smile: X

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be insensitive. Just explaining it badly. There are people who fear being admitted for hospice care. It’s about comfort and pain control for the patient :slight_smile: X

Surely doctor’s are trained not only to heal & preserve life, but also help ease people’s suffering.

I think safely ending someone’s pain & suffering is the most kind, caring & compassionate thing one human being can do for another human being … but it seems to me that it’s already happening on the QT. When my mum was close to the end of her life (lung cancer) and was struggling for breath minute by minute, my mum’s GP happened to mention to her that sleeping tablets would suppress her breathing. The following morning I found her dead in bed - sleeping tablets on her bedside table!

Thank you Dr Edwards - she left this world curled up as though she was peacefully asleep.

At the moment people are having to take awful risks to end their suffering. I heard a case of a very disabled lady who had MS who deliberately let her wheel chair run free down a steep hill straight into a river … what a terrible way to go!

And don’t forget … at the moment, we are seeing our parents off … pretty soon it’ll be our turn! Make it law NOW! I don’t want to my children to have to watch me have a ‘bad’ death!

Sorry for the rant … I’m very passionate about this subject!

Emma x

I’m passionate too - but still believe that if people have particular views about how they should be treated when they reach the end of their lives, then they should have living wills. When the family says “she wouldn’t want to be treated with antibiotics, she would want her pain suppressed as much as possible, even if it meant she would die quicker” it is much easier for the doctors to take notice if they have something clear printed out and signed by the person in question, witnessed (not by a member of the family) and dated. You can go to a lawyer for this if you want to or you can find a template on the internet.

Doctors sometimes have to work hard to keep people alive when they are near but not at the end. If you don’t want them to do this, you might be lucky, as some of the stories above describe. I have written a living will to try and make it more likely that I am lucky. Everyone who thinks that doctors should be allowed to end life should have a living will because if they don’t have one, they have a very good chance that doctors will be trying to make them live.

I think, as I said before, asking doctors to end life is something different from what I’ve described above and there are much bigger questions about this. Next time you think of saying ‘we’d put a dog down if they were in this state, why can’t we do that for a person?’, there’s a very simple answer - because they are a person and not a dog.

Aye true enough we do euthanasia on animals, but they don’t have kids family members and possesions, insurance policies houses and the like so much could be gained if the persons trust is abused. Firstly I believe that safeguarding as a whole needs to be addressed as the law stands now, there are far too many horror stories with regard to abuse and neglect. Also as mentioned before palliative care needs sorting out BIG time. We were driving towards a bridge my daughter was in the back and the police were talking somebody down, I had to try explain that to my daughter and that person was a stranger, would hate to have to explain if it were a relative as that conversation was challenging enough.

Morning.

Thanks everybody for the replys it’s made for a really lively debate.

Can I just say one thing there is a lot of presumption about doctors and their role in this.

And living wills, power of attorney may work better.

People will take their own lives if they feel they need to.

Ronin

My Mum would say that about 40 years ago Doctors did help people to go - a large injection of morphine. Relatives collected together to say their goodbyes while the injection was given. Doctors today are too frightened of the suing culture that we live in. They cant afford to risk their career.

Moyna xxx

I have had conversations with both my wife and daughter about this. I was prepared to go to Dignitas if and when the need arose and they both accepted this. The only problem is that I want to leave my body to science and my brain to the MS TIssue Bank. The tissue bank said that they could not accept tissue from someone who had gone to Dignitas. If it were not for that I would go in a heartbeat if/when I felt it was the time.

Don’t forget that Powers of Attorney have now been split - one deals with finances and one with (essentially) care.
If the one to do with care is not in place, then the local authority can step in and take over supervising the patient’s care - and it can sometimes result in a messy court case if the family object.

As for asisted dying, the post from Purpledot rang several bells for me.
Some years back, in a nursing home that no longer exists, cared for by a GP whose name I have forgotten, my 90-odd year old mother, in a generally bad way, had pneumonia. The GP asked me, very gently, if prolonging her life was more important than making sure that she did not suffer. I said that her not suffering was more important to me - and she did not suffer at all for the next few hours. After that it was just the formalities.

To me, that GP acted with total compassion for all concerned.

Geoff