Covid Booster Confusion

Everyday living
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It was strange how the risk of clots with AZ really hit the headlines, but Pfizer with similar levels managed to keep below the radar. One company is small and has a small PR department, the other large and with a well oiled PR machine?

I don’t know if people have been following the debate about aspirating or not aspirating (pulling back on the syringe plunger before injecting the vaccine to ensure no blood vessel is accidentally punctured) when administering the jab? It is required in Denmark, done routinely in a number of countries including Taiwan, China, Korea. It is the old way of doing it, to make sure that the vaccine is not inadvertently being injected straight into a vein, which can happen very occasionally. Research points to accidental intravenous injection as a “potential mechanism for post-vaccination thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome". However here in England PHE or whatever their new name is, seems to be deliberately ignoring the evidence. Aspirating is such a simple measure too, takes all of a second to do.

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I am ashamed at just how much this tickled me.

I have not. Honestly, I completely stepped back from all news media like 7 months ago and have been totally (and blissfully) unaware of wth is going on ever since. I’d gotten to a place where I was constantly checking the news, and I was so stressed, and so disheartened, and I was already going through enough, soo… I just stopped. Honestly reading this thread I was like ‘third jab?’ Obviously I’m probably being kind of irresponsible and there’s a happy medium, but I just can’t bring myself to care. I wear my mask, I was already pretty much a social hermit, and I’ve yet to pick back up my hobby licking public bathroom door handles. I feel like I’m still doing what I need to do, and I… my mental health just cannot afford for me to pay attention any more.
That being said, I used to be an injection drug user, and we in the drug using community were always taught to pull back before injecting IM. Frankly I was surprised when I re-entered upstanding society and got a flu shot for the first time to see that it wasn’t something nurses seemed to do. I was a groggy drug addict with the absolute bare minimum of interest in surviving and I still couldn’t have bought myself to IM without checking I wasn’t in a vein. Honestly I wonder whether part of the concern is just that it’s a slightly less ‘tidy’ technique - it’s more likely to be a little bit painful, and it’s not easy to do if you’re already using the other hand to pull the skin so that you can do a z-track injection (if you’ve ever noticed that when you get a jab they pull your skin to one side a little bit before they stick the needle in, that’s a z-track injection; when they remove the needle and let your skin/flesh slide back into place, the exit hole of the needle is no longer in the same place as the hole where it went into your muscle, so the injected fluid doesn’t just leak back out of the needle hole). It takes just fractionally longer and can be a little bit uncomfortable which maybe isn’t great for people with needle phobias or people who are pain sensitive. That doesn’t feel like a great reason not to do it though; chances are you’re not going to hit a vein, it’s just super unlikely, but then a lot of vaccines have been delivered. If it does turn out to be linked to blood clots, it sort of doesn’t matter if it’s rare.

I’ve also read a couple things about people who got horrific and lasting effects after the jab was injected into a nerve or the joint… just, ouch. That is frankly just a bad technique or bad luck, and again, if you’re giving out so many IMs, some will go wrong. That’s just the way it is. But that doesn’t make you feel any better if you’re one of the ones it happens to.

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excellent post. THE POINT BEING PFIZER is making over 50 BILLION DOLLARS on the vaccine, it is OBSCENE. they reckon a MILLION A SECOND.

i HAVE followed the aspirate debate it was on John campbells youtube. It made a lot of sense. He is also an advocate of simple VITAMIN D useage. It has been proven to help with disease like colds and flus and covid. Many of us are defiecent.

I was so i take extra now every day and make sure i eat more things either fortified with it, or naturally have it.

I dont like this sudden MASS PANIC over Omicron shame we didnt have the same at the beginning when all this started. If we had I believe we would not be in this mad situtation now.

Anyway like you say aspirating is such a simple procedure it used to be a natural thing. xx

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I have tried to do same. I was anal about SARS COVID 2 having done a six weeks course on it back when it started. We were told then it would probably be here for the long haul. Now what is the point. in our local paper it says 2 extra dead today with covid on death certificate, or 100 new cases today, when the day before it was less lol.

I do feel we should all get vaccinated but if you have to get booster after only six now 3 months, what is the point, it shows it wasnt going to work in the first place. the way to deal with this is simple. we learnt about it on the course.

HANDS. FACE. SPACE. AND V.E.N.T.I.L.A.T.E. if you have people in make sure you have ventilation. in 2002 - 2003 hong kong hospital got rid of covid by opening up all the vents in their hospitals.

May I say too @Rainbow what a refreshingly honest person you are.

take care. xx

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Yes, John Campbell’s channel has been very good. I don’t always agree with him - but where I haven’t he has generally later changed his view when he has gathered further evidence!

Medcram is the other that I follow. Dr Seheult is seriously bright, and so good at comunicating clearly. Shame he didn’t train as a neurologist and be based in the UK!

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This seems really on the money. I feel like it’s a real shame that so many of our services have focussed on cramming as many people as possible into as economic a space as possible, and not just because of COVID. Lack of air flow, lack of green space, lack of space generally. Not that those services aren’t often under immense pressure to do as much as possible with as little as possible, but I feel as though, particularly in the healthcare industry, so much of it feels so stuffy. If there’s ventilation, it comes through a duct system that seems to be as much about spreading the same tired old air about as it is introducing outside air in; hospital windows can rarely ever actually be opened. My current neuro team is in an old hospital building that they’ve been saying they’re going to shut down since the mid 1980s. They were finally going to move out of there and then COVID hit and suddenly that space had real value, because it was a whole extra hospital for people to spread over. Plus it’s airy (primarily because it’s a really old, dilapidated building lol).

May I ask what course you did? My mum did one on COVID early on, online through a university, and I’m wondering whether it was the same one!

Aww. That’s genuinely made my day, thank you :smile:

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It was the London School of Hygeine and tropical medicine. It was six weeks on line i really enjoyed it and met some great people from all over the world. One of the Virologists who wrote it was instrumental in ebola/HIV and other diseases.

Virologist Peter Piot the Director of LSHT. He was shocked when he finally got covid not long after and it nearly killed him. https://www.science.org/content/article/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19

He was hit with hypoxia, the silent killer.

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@jactac I had the letter to say I would be offered a 3rd dose of pfitzer and my letter stated that it was not a booster. I called to book, but was told over the phone that the 3rd jab and the booster were the same thing, but to mention it at the jab centre so it would be logged correctly.
At the centre, the person who gave my jab said they’d just had another person who had the same letter as me and they were making notes accordingly!
Unfortunately 3 days later I had a sore throat and a cough which by Friday got my pcr test to confirm it was covid. I was off work for 2 weeks, but still fighting off the cough!
Sharon

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Hi Sallum,
My letter didn’t mention my previous jabs (2), all it said was that I was entitled to now have the booster.
It was the nurse at the vaccination center who first questioned whether I had been given 3 previous jabs, and the booster would be the 4th.

My MS clinic confirmed that it is 3 jabs and then the booster if you are taking immune suppressing meds.

So the 3rd jab would be the booster if you’er not on suppressing meds.

If that makes sense.

If your letter offered you a 3rd jab but actually stated it was NOT the booster then that indicates you will be offered a 4th, the booster ?
Are you on suppressing meds ?

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I wonder whether this is a Wales/England thing. I had my booster today (the nurse told me it was exactly the same as my first two Pfizer jabs) and my letter didn’t say anything about my last jabs, it just told me where to go for this one (I’m in Wales).

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That’s the one she did! She really loved it too :smile:

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Hi Rainbow,

I think you could be right.

Just like the different Covid rules for each country, it’s just far too confusing.

Why we cant all work off the same page is beyond me.

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@jactac Not really. I’m taking Aubagio but I’m being monitored every 2 months because my neutrophil levels are quite low. I guess that’s why my Doctor is being cautious by putting me down for the extra jab with the booster to follow next year at some point.

Sharon x

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Oh wow really how neat. I enjoyed it and have my certfificate in a frame thats how anal i am ha ha. I told the lady who runs the sheletered housing in my area what she was doing wrong with the restrictions lol. Actually she took on board ventilation and made sure that the small windows in hallways were kept open. its a small world. xxx

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@Sallum.

I might be wrong but I believe Aubagio is within the group of immune suppressing meds.
It can lower white blood cells, in turn suppressing the immune system, which could make the user more open to infection, thats probably why your GP is playing safe.
Good that he/she is on the ball.

I could walk into my GP surgery with an axe sticking out of my head and they would ask what the problem was !!

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Hi Jactac,
I was due to have my booster tomorrow n Swansea I’ve had 2 previous jabs and had deterioration in my symptoms after both the jabs. I have not heard anything about having 3 jabs before the booster. I thought the booster was the same in “strength” as the other two!?!?
Anyway I decided to cancel the booster as I had the flu vaccine yesterday and have felt unwell today and I’m feeling very wary of any more covid vaccine as I really don’t want to have anymore physical disability afterwards. I have called the MS Team and they can only say that the decision to have the booster or not has to be my own.
Does your sister also live in Swansea? A

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Hi Amanda,

Yes my sister & cousin who also have MS, we all live here in Swansea.

My sister had 3 jabs then the booster, she’s on immune suppressing meds, my cousin had 2 jabs then the booster as did I, we are not on immune suppressing meds.

Like yourself I had a flare up after the first jab but was ok on the 2nd, I just felt a bit under the weather after the booster.

The 2 jabs I had were the Astra/Zenaca, the booster was the Moderna.
I think this was the same as my sister & cousin.

Our MS nurse & consultant, we all go to the same clinic and have the same MS nurse and consultant, and you might as well if you go to the clinic in Morriston, advised us to have the jabs and booster, but clearly it’s your own choice.

Are you on immune suppressing meds ?

If not I doubt you’ll hear anything about a third jab.
My sister didnt get the booster letter until after she had the 3rd jab.
Myself & cousin had the letter after our 2nd jabs.

I’m not on those meds so I just had the letter saying I could have the booster after my 2 jabs, it was the nurse at the vaccination site who queried the 3rd jab before the booster, and I think that is where all the confusion comes from, some nurses doing the jabs might be thinking that everyone with MS are on very similar meds.

I think any flare up of MS symptoms after the jabs, whether that be the initial jabs or the booster, are short term, it’s your immune system kicking off to deal with the vaccination.

I was also worried about the booster, especially as I my MS flared up after the 1st jab, but I just decided to go with it, and although I felt a bit under the weather, I was a lot better than I was after the 1st jab.

Hope this helps.

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Hi, the same has happened to me as I am on gilenya and had my two AZ jabs a while back and then had the Pfizer vaccine as my booster a couple of weeks ago at a walk in clinic ( as advised by my gp ) only to find out a week ago that I should of had the third vaccine first, so now I’m left more anxious especially as it’s all kicking off again all over the news…plus they want me to change to a different DMT but scared to know what to do. Trying to stay sane and safe !

Ps only found out last week that a 3rd primary vaccine was a thing .

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Hello Wutus

Are you sure you needed a third vaccine?

The reason I ask is that as far as I know, the only people who need a 3rd are those on immune suppressing medication. If being on Gilenya is the reason you believe you need a third full jab, I think you might need to check that out with your neurologist/MS nurse/other specialist.

I don’t think Gilenya is an immune suppressant. But obviously you could be taking another drug that is. So I might be entirely wrong in your case.

Check it out?

Sue

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Hi sue,
Thanks for your reply :grinning:
Gilenya or fingolimod is classed as an immunosuppressive medication. However when I spoke to an Ms nurse today she said it "isn’t up to them to keep track of contacting the patients to tell them they need it but I should contact my gp) gp said I need to call NHS to sort what has happened as its them that email and text have come from. So I shall try them tomorrow and see what they say… stay safe :blush: